starting to untangle the finances...

[Soobee]

Today I went round my parents' house to make a start on putting their financial affairs in order. we believe mum has vascular dementia after at least one TIA last year and my dad is struggling to look after her as he has cancer (just waiting for exact diagnosis so he's getting no treatment yet).

My mum likes to have all her financial things around her on the table, sofa, floor and in carrier bags dotted around the room. This means that when we go to visit we have to move something so we can sit down. I have just spent the last 8 hours sorting through paperwork from a myriad of different accounts and utilities and share companies and all I've done is clear one footstool. I have only made a dent in it!

Mum gets upset when I try to move anything, even though she can't find anything and isn't keeping on top of the bills. I have found she has been squirrelling money away from my father that she could have been spending on her care etc. I am really upset, she complains about spending any money on anything and it's all just sitting in an online account she can't even access any more.

She tried to write a cheque today and had to ask for help every step of the way. Every time I think I am imagining how ill she is, she does something to show me that her confusion and memory loss is getting worse and worse.

I know I am going to have to get power of attorney set up but I just can't face it yet (she's going through other assessments at the moment). I don't even provide the day to day care but after 8 hours with her and the paperwork I am exhausted. I don't know how my dad manages to look after her when he's in so much pain.

 

[jenniferpa]

Please, Soobee, I understand where you are coming from but DO NOT put off getting this LPA done: a sudden downturn could mean that she is incapable of granting it, and this is more likely to happen with vascular dementia. You should also probably get one set up for your father as well.

Take care

 

[Winnie Kjaer]

I am fairly new to this site so I hope you don't mind me posting you a reply. Please don't waite with Power of Attorney too long for the pure reason, that no solicitor will do one, if your mother is considered too mentally ill to understand the document which has to be read and explained to her by someone other than you before she signs. My husband had a massive stroke as his second stroke, and it was then too late for us to arrange the POA. I should of course have done it after his first stroke from which he almost recovered fully, but found it so hard to bring the subject up then. It is very difficult to arrange the financial affairs if you have not arranged one while you still can. I am in the same position with my mother who lives wit me but does not speak nor understand English, again, no solicitor will do one for her, partly due to language difficulties and partly because she is in the latter stages of dementia. I manage now on their pension and AA but it has not been easy. I have therefore already arranged my own POA and feel good knowing that everything is in order for my loved ones. Good luck with the tyding up by the way.

 

[Vonny]

Hi Soobee,

I really must second Jennifer's advice, especially about the LPA for your father as well. Also, if you get it set up now you could help your poor father who shouldn't have to be looking after everything in his condition. You can read about how to set up LPAs here:

http://www.publicguardian.gov.uk/arrangements/arrangements.htm

We went to a solicitor to get ours sorted but with hindsight we could have done it ourselves. It cost around £250 at the solicitors but that was just for dad.

If you do decide to do it yourself and need any help completing it, you can always post on here or I'm happy for you to PM me. I can't guarantee I'll give you correct advice eek but I can tell you what we did, and I had my letter through today to say it has been registered with the OPG.

Vonny xx

 

[Soobee]

Thanks for your replies so far. That will be my main task for next week then.

In the shorter term we are trying to add me to one of my parents' joint accounts but the form is a little confusing. It relies on me signing to say I think she is of sound enough mind although I don't think that. The bank clerk seemed to think it would be OK for me to sign anyway (!) because my dad also has access to the account.

 

[vdg]

I echo what others have said about LPA.I got ours through at the beginning of May.In fact it was registered on 5th May and Mum was taken really ill on the 8th.By July she was considered incapable of making her own judgements.All the medics are surprised at how fast she has deteriorated.I am so glad I got the LPA when I did.Even with it, life has not been all that straight forward though

If I were you I'd shop around solicitors, ours cost £850 and I now know we could have got it a lot cheaper.I am learning fast as I go along!! I really wish I'd found TP back then and got advice before plunging in!

 

[Clive]

You may need to find a simple reason to convince your mum and dad to have an LPA.

I convinced mum by making her notice that the Gas people were overcharging her. I told her I could get the money back if I had Power of Attorney, otherwise they would not speak to me.

Clive

 

[Nebiroth]

Yes, you really need to get one arranged as soon as you can. People with vascular dementia can decline suddenly without any warning, and such a decline might render your mum incapable of making an LPA because she would not longer be considered "competent" to do so.

LPA's are potentially a lot more complicated than the old EPA's were, because you can make many more provisions and clauses in them and they are very powerful documents. That said £850 for one seems very steep! I'd shop around if I were you.

Keepo in mind, if there is no LPA, and you need to take control of mum's finances or make healthcare decisions, you would need to go through the Court of Protection which can be a lengthy, expensive and complicated affair. Also, they might well award power of attorney to your dad because he is legally the "nearest relative" (spouses always are).

However, the LPA document can name anyone, or several people, and can even specify that the attorneys may only act jointly.

It might be well to consider it naming at least you and your dad, in case he becomes unwell also.

 

[Cl13]

Yes I agree also, get that appointment made tomorrow, ours took three months to come through and yes 850 is excessive, I paid our bill in July, it was 660.

Take care

Love Lynn

 

[susiesue]

I did an EPA for my husband and at the same time one for me and also one for my mother. We did it ourselves and it really wasn't difficult at all - not sure whether the LPA is as simple.

We have just stored them away until such time as we need to put any of them into force.

Hope this helps.

 

[sussexsue]

Hi

What a sad state your parents are in. I am sure it will help you cope if you know you can get their finances in order.

Echo what everyone else has said on POA.

My experience with banks is that over the phone they are terrible, but a lot more helpful in the branches if you can actually take your parents with you. Get yourself set up as a signee asap. I would also suggest that whilst you are in there you get them to set up an online account as well so you can manage their affairs remotely. Now whispers very quietly here - you are not meant to do this, but banks make life so difficult I just dont care

good luck

 

[sue38]

I agree that you should not delay. Although you have a lot on your plate this should really be at (or very close to) the top of the list. You really will be saving yourself a lot of angst and expense in the future if you don't leave it too late.

 

[Lisa M 99]

I absolutely ditto all of the above about the LPA. It HAS to be your priority, don't wait. If you wait until it's too late the process becomes much more frustrating and complex.

Forms aren't too bad and OPG are very helpful.

xx

 

[sumosumo]

Yes, get that paperwork done NOW.

I know what you mean about the paperwork. Took me eight months to sort my mother's Fort Knox building (locks all internal doors). She had receipts from the 50's. Flippin nightmare.

Get yourself a file, shredder and some plastic pockets; set a spreadsheet up and beaver away little by little setting yourself little targets to reach. Nothing too much at once. Shredding is very therapeutic too. Your mum's 'system' sounds like my mums, ie, carrier bags.

Love Clive's suggestion about the Gas Bill overcharge. You find yourself becoming a bit of a fib-teller to get through this.

G O O D L U C K

 

[sumosumo]

Yes, get that paperwork done NOW.

i mean the Power of Attorney paperwork not your mum's. Sorry for that confusion.

 

[Canadian Joanne]

I too love Clive's suggestion. That would have worked well for my mother also.

Get that LPA going ASAP. We'll all be here asking you about it and I'm afraid we're a dreadful bunch of nags. Much easier to do it right away - it will shut us up.

 

[fredsnail]

We got a DIY pack from WH Smiths for the power of attorney - it had a cd that gave step by step instructions for each of the boxes - cost about £17 I think, and then the registration fees for the Office of the Public Guardian.

I would also do both versions of the POA while you're at it.

I would also recommend going into the bank to discuss access to your parents bank accounts - maybe with your Dad?

Grandad's bank was very helpful - especially when I explained that I work from 9-6 and would find it difficult to get into the bank to do banking - they arranged online access for me.

They also told us about another account he had that we didn't know about.

I can also sympathise with the paper mountain - 14 months on and I'm still ploughing through Grandad's paperwork - he's not thrown anything out since before the war I'm sure. We also had to contend with a mice infestation at his house - which had munched a lot of the paperwork in the attic still I supposed it saved me that much more paper

 

[Soobee]

thanks again. Today I talked to the local PRT Carers centre and they've sent me a list of local solicitors who might handle POA if I need them. I have also printed off the AgeConcern factsheet (43 excellent informative pages about POA).

I had a little chat with the PRT about mum's capacity to sign and it might be that she is already too compromised but we probably won't know until we get to the meeting where we need them to witness and certify she's OK.

I think it's worth us trying to do it alone if we can and then if I need to I'll get a solicitor to check it before it's sent off. If it's anything like a tax return I won't be able to do it - I'm a graduate but filling in that tax form is beyond me, it frustrates me so much!

I've worked out that mum's cognitive difficulties seem to be mainly centred around procedural memory. The 'how do I do this?' kind of stuff, like writing cheques, turning the radio down in her own car that she's had for years, operating the washing machine, making tea, getting out of the car, programming the video. I don't believe that will ever improve or that she can relearn or move that function to another part of her brain. Now I have to explain it to dad so he doesn't get so exasperated with mum about it.