ss threatening court of protection - help

[FifiMo]

Hiya Donque,

If it was me, then I wouldn't wait for someone to contact you before finding yourself an advocate or a lawyer. You have no idea what actions they might be taking behind the scenes for example that could take years to unravel. They could, for example, be applying for a Deprivation of Liberty order to prevent your mum being taken out at all and giving the care home licence to control your mum's comings and goings.

I did have a thought that might help you...do you have a house insurance policy? Very often these days legal advice is included in such policies and so it might be worth speaking to them. Mine for example gives me legal advice up to the value of £50,000. Some credit cards, I think, can also carry such services too. Might be worth checking out and see if you can access some of this and get the help you need right now.

A question for the moderators on here...is the legal and financial section open to the non-members of TP? If so, then given the details that are in this thread it might be worth considering moving it to the tea room.

Fiona

 

[Chemmy]

Hello again donque

You must be worried sick about this. I do agree with the others that you need someone helping you to fight your corner.

Looking at it objectively from the sidelines, if there has been a complaint to SS, it is right that it is investigated, However, you should also have the right to 'defend' yourself without feeling intimidated.

First of all, try and stay calm when dealing with SS and the CH.

I would refuse to attend any meetings without someone there as a witness (friend or neighbour - or the vicar? - would do to start with) Preferably someone who already knows the relationship you have with your mum.

I would not speak to SS or the CH on the telephone as there is no record of what is being said. Texting too is inappropriate. Insist all contact is by e-mail and then it's all in writing and you can copy in the above friend/neighbour or anyone else. Keep all these emails - received and sent. Make sure the tone of any of the ones you send is calm.

Continue to go and see your mother in the CH. To be honest, she might settle better anyway if you're not taking her out or back to your house for dinner, so I wouldn't see that as too big a problem.

You need to try and build up a friendly relationship with the staff so again, be nice and calm and chatty with them - you have to remember, they don't know you from Adam and will be wary of you at the moment - you need to let them see you can be trusted.

I know it's hard, but it's better for your mum and others like her that everything is investigated rather than SS simply dismissing every complaint. The important thing is that there will be a set procedure and you need help to make sure it's followed.

Another helpline to try is this:

Community Legal Advice (CLA) is a free and confidential advice service in England and Wales paid for by legal aid.

Good luck

 

[winda]

First of all, try and stay calm when dealing with SS and the CH.

I would refuse to attend any meetings without someone there as a witness (friend or neighbour - or the vicar? - would do to start with) Preferably someone who already knows the relationship you have with your mum.

I would not speak to SS or the CH on the telephone as there is no record of what is being said. Texting too is inappropriate. Insist all contact is by e-mail and then it's all in writing and you can copy in the above friend/neighbour or anyone else. Keep all these emails - received and sent. Make sure the tone of any of the ones you send is calm.

Continue to go and see your mother in the CH. To be honest, she might settle better anyway if you're not taking her out or back to your house for dinner, so I wouldn't see that as too big a problem.

You need to try and build up a friendly relationship with the staff so again, be nice and calm and chatty with them - you have to remember, they don't know you from Adam and will be wary of you at the moment - you need to let them see you can

Good luck

This is good advice and I'm sure will help your cause.

Good luck with finding an advocate.

 

[SWMBO1950]

Hi Donque

Whilst I am sure you have just make sure any request it put in writing (preferable letter form and send recorded delivery). Anything verbal will be viewed as a comment.

If you have to have an escort to take your mum out so be it. Don't let them dictate completely what you have to do. Play the game and show them you are the dedicted daughter you are and that you are not into harming your mother. I know this will stick in your craw but don't let them rob you of time with your mother because you are unhappy about the circumstances. You still have some power over what is going on so please use it to your advantage.

As the saying goes "Don't let the b******s grind you down"

Best Wishes

I have been asking for clarification and procedures re complaint I have had nothing in writing from anyone and not one response to any of my emails to date
i am just in the dark

I cannot take my mum out without an escort form the home of ocurse they have no staff in the evening so I cannot now take her to my home

I am devastated as they are stealing time from me and my mum I donlt know how long it will be before she does not know me and she is so distressed that she cannot come out with me

This could take months to sort out and it could be too late for me andmy mum to spend precious time together I need an advocate for me to liaise with these agnecies its a wall of silence they will not even tell me by what authority they are stopping me going out with my mum alone

Even if I hsave someone with me I have ot be back by 8pm before my mum moved in they said there were no restrictions about going away or being back by 10

Now my mum is there they have the power to more or less do as they wish
Can anyone help I cannot sleep eat or rest

 

[JPG1]

Hello again, Donque

I can only suggest again that you telephone the Relatives and Residents Association helpline on 020 7359 8136.

They are there until 4.30 pm, but not over the weekend.

The Relatives & Residents Association is a national charity which exists for the benefit of older people in residential care, as well as their families and friends left behind at home.

I feel sure they will be able to advise you about the situation. They won't judge you at all - they will help you.

Please give them a ring.

 

[donque]

safeguarding process - it just got worse -so they can fix their figs for the gov

After the safeguarding which was not substantiated I have lodged a complaint about the process and asked for scrutiny of the process - stone walled

all our rights were abused have called over 140 solicitors no one wants to help with a no win no fee basis

no best interest
no MCA
no investigation report
no real evidence
no investigation officer except the police
no right of reply
no minutes to the only meeting I was included in
they lied about the complaint letter it did not come form alleged witnesses as I had been told
no restrictions in writing
they did not follow their own procedures

and after the event the home my mum lives in gave her notice to quit to get rid of me as so many health issues were raised and they want to distance themselves form all the issues and process they knew was faulty
ss did not support my mum they were complicit in the faulty process and the not least restrictive restrictions that damaged my mum permanently
Its been a nightmare and no one cares
Have asked my MP for help have no idea if they have done anything over the last 5 months have asked them to ask for a members independent inquiry

My mum was not given any representation they ignored my sister who is her lpa
all they were interested in was the process no matter how faulty or how damaging it was to my mum and her family - my mothers views and wishes were never taken into consideration
The chief exec of the council no real answer
the Councillor who heads up the board of adult social services not really interested and everyone has closed ranks
decisions were made on factually incorrect info that no one checked
and so on only route now maybe a judicial review but no idea how to do this and not even sure my complaint has been exhausted
The IMCA that was brought in at the 11th hours got all the facts muddled ended up voting in the case conference and did not represent my mothers views or wishes a capacity assessment was done on our mother which we were never told about and only got a copy of because we applied under a subject access request - that meant we were also denied the right of challenge
NO ONE CARES its the process not the people that are important and every bruise every mark my mother gets everyone looks at me as if I did it

 

[FifiMo]

Hiya,

The Daily Telegraph published a couple of articles last week about abuse of power in the Court of Protection. All these types of issues are hot topics right now, so, it might be in your best interests to contact them with your story and get them to do a bit of investigating etc. might be the only way for you to take this further.

Fiona

 

[donque]

False allegations of abuse - No one is interested as no money in it!

All help agencies are sign posters nothing practical - ultimate answer is always get a solicitor - I have called over 150 solicitors no one is interested as I do not have the money to fight them even though they have abused my mothers rights through out the process - this was a process that involved finding authority - hosting authority and service provider the home - I used the complaints system and it took a year and a zillion emails to get them to overturn 2 investigations neither me or my family knew about they excluded my mothers LPA in both cases and both cases were conducted in secret and were abuse allegations against me - as they call them safeguarding I never knew I was being accused of abuse - they keep you in the dark I actually thought it was a health and safety issue how naive ......they overturned the cases against me but they will stand on my record and my mums for life as investigated for abuse the best result is unsubstantiated - that does not say you are exonerated to me that means they could not find enough to get me on, in my eyes and - people will always say there was no smoke without fire.

I have asked the authority to remove both cases as

Case A:
Had a witness in the room at the same time as me a Dr - when the injury occurred my mother got a small skin nick from a metal clip board - my sister and mothers LPA was also outside the room at the time and was witness to me telling hospital staff how the injury happened, staff never wrote this down - they never bothered to contact either witness and the alleged abuse was reported the day after the injury occurred when they could have easily established the truth at the time with the Dr who was in the room at the time of injury. None of us were included in the investigation my mother had no representation and her LPA was also excluded none of us knew this case existed until a long time after a decision had been made with no one involved except them. They also did a capacity assessment on my mum without telling us.

Case B
The action I took was least restrictive to prevent my mum pouring boiling tea over me or herself and damaging property, - this is not considered abuse but least restrictive restraint - I pushed/slapped her hand away from me if I had used any force as was suggested she would have dropped the cup of hot tea or at the very least spilt it, this did not happen - however there is no word in he English language that describes what I did, that cannot be constituted as abuse - ie raising your voice is also considered abuse etc etc - a carer from a care Agency I fired due to giving my mum the wrong meds who was working out a months notice on the insistence of the ss reported me as abusing my mother.

These cases will stand on my file/mothers file forever as investigated abuse
I could not get anyone to independently scrutinies these faulty investigations and the ss are self policing - and no lawyer will sue for false allegation of abuse unless you have loads of money - the misery and knock on effect of these 2 cases has been horrendous and it was on my mothers file at the care home that as I had a history of physical abuse !! that is how I found out about the 2 cases

I have now managed to get both cases overturned but that is not the point these were not abuse cases in the first place and should never have been pushed as such after the explanations were given and proven the point is they were not interested in the only nailing a safeguarding process to pad out figures to the government to prove they are justifying their safeguard teams etc -
they use terminology no one would understand and they do not follow their own safeguarding policies/procedures and no one cares

I will continue to fight to get these cases removed but I am running out of where to go - I do not want to go to the LGO it could take another 2 years they have no teeth and their awards for damages are pathetic - they will only say what injustice had been done and the fact they overturned the cases no doubt they will see that as fixing the problem but it does not, each authority seems to have a team that deals with them at the LGO each authority so do not tell me they are independent or impartial

Here is some interesting information using FOI on a web site what do they know very useful for finding out stuff


xxxxxxxxx made this Freedom of Information request to xxxxxxxx
13 May 2013

Adult safeguarding cases

Relating to the period from when the pan london policy came into
action until now:-

How many adult safeguarding cases have gone to completion, case
conference?

All closed safeguarding investigations have been
completed. However not all completed cases require case conferences.
There have been 270 case conferences since June 2011.



How many involved the police?

148 case conferences since June 2011 involved the Police.



Of those that went to completion, how many of those adult
safeguarding processes have been scrutinised and by whom?

All safeguarding cases are scrutinised by a line manager via
supervision, and all cases that go to case conference are scrutinised by
the meetings Chair. This position is mainly held by the Safeguarding
Adults Team coordinators.

There is also a programme of auditing of safeguarding cases as part
of the wider quality assurance functions of the Council.



Of those that went to completion, how many have been independently
scrutinised and by whom?

The Chairs of case conferences will scrutinise cases up to that stage
and in addition a sample of cases are audited as part of an audit
programme.



How many have had the outcome overturned to inconclusive? By
whom?

None



How many have had the outcome overturned to unsubstantiated? By
whom?

None



Which department/person is responsible for overturning the decisions
of a faulty process?

In such circumstances it would be the Chair of the case conference,
Operational Head and the Safeguarding Adults Policy and Development
Manager.



Does the scrutiny committee/sapb board investigate these faulty
processes and, if so, how?

No



How many faulty processes were investigated in the requested period?
And results?

None



How many legal cases have been brought against a faulty adult
safeguarding process?

None



What were the allegations?

N/A



What were the results of those cases?

N/A



Who is ultimately responsible at the highest level in the Council
structure for faulty safeguarding processes?

Safeguarding Partnership Board.



Please can I have a list of titles and roles and responsibilities of
those within an adult safeguarding process?

Safeguarding Adults Manager, Investigating Officers, others as
applicable.



What qualifications/expertise would a Chair of a safeguarding process
hold?

Would be a qualified principal social worker or above.



29 May 2013



For clarity I may not have made myself clear re the question:

How many adult safeguarding cases have gone to completion, case
conference?

ANSWER WAS: All closed safeguarding investigations have been
completed. However not all completed cases require case
conferences. There have been 270 case conferences since June 2011.

So how many in total including completed safeguarding
investigations?

How many of those completed investigations were dropped for eg due
to:
A Least restrictive force used to prevent harm to the person or
someone else or risk of damaging property and not abuse
B They were purely an accident and not abuse
or any other legitimate reason ?

Of those that went to completion, how many of those adult
safeguarding processes have been scrutinised and by whom?

All safeguarding cases are scrutinised by a line manager via
supervision, and all cases that go to case conference are
scrutinised by the meetings Chair. This position is mainly held by
the Safeguarding Adults Team coordinators.

So all scrutiny is self policing by the same chair who made the
decision?

At what stage in the process does the Chair scrutinise their own
decision?

There is also a programme of auditing of safeguarding cases as part
of the wider quality assurance functions of the Council.
Who is in charge of the auditing process and who completes the
actual audit and how?

Of those that went to completion, how many have been independently
scrutinised and by whom?

The Chairs of case conferences will scrutinise cases up to that
stage and in addition a sample of cases are audited as part of an
audit programme.

How many of the total completed investigations were audited?
and how many of these did the Chairs self scrutinise?

So there is no completely independent scrutiny?
all is self policed by the authority ?

Who is the Operational Head and the Safeguarding Adults Policy and
Development Manager.?

As far as xxxxx is aware no faulty processes were investigated
in the requested period?

Who is ultimately responsible at the highest level in the Council
structure for faulty safeguarding processes?

Safeguarding Partnership Board.

Does the scrutiny committee/sapb board investigate these faulty
processes and, if so, how?
No

If the Safeguarding Partnership Board do not investigate faulty
safeguarding processes how can they also be responsible for them?
and if none have been investigated how would the SAPB know about
any faulty processes?

Please can I have a list of titles and roles and responsibilities
of those within an adult safeguarding process?

Safeguarding Adults Manager, Investigating Officers, others as
applicable.

Please can you expand on the above as it seems that some people in
the process have duel roles and titles and responsibilities
missing?
ie
SAM
Chair
Decision Maker
Lead Investigation officer/manager
2nd investigation officer/manager
care manager

What are the roles and responsibilities

 

[garnuft]

How is your Mum?

 

[Norfolkgirl]

I know you're trying to clear your name but how much does it affect you if your name is on file as suspected "abuse". How much does it affect your mum's care in the home, is she still in the same home as I seem to remember they didn't want her there anymore? and how does it affect anything moving forward having your name on file?

I'm blacklisted by police and SS as trouble maker and won't take me seriously with anything in future and will only refer to my mum's perpetrator of financial abuse as they think he's innocent even though Action Fraud agree with me the circumstances are that of fraud of adult at risk + recommend police investigate - perpetrator is a psychopath and twists things around to benefit him and his accomplices and has gotten away with his crimes.