• Expert Q&A: Rare dementias - Tues 3 March, 3-4pm

    Our next expert Q&A will be on the topic of rare dementias. It will be hosted by Nikki and Seb from Rare Dementia Support. If you have any questions about rare dementias, they will be here to answer them on Tuesday 3 March between 3-4pm.

    You can either post your question >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll be happy to ask them on your behalf.

So how do you go about protecting your assets? And pitfalls.

HillyBilly

Registered User
Dec 21, 2015
1,947
Ireland
We deliberately bought a bungalow when we bought this house as William was in his late 70s at the time - and I wanted to be able to clean the windows and gutters etc myself. It's the garden that will do for me eventually - it's well over half an acre, and very awkward, so a ride on mower can't be used.
Goat. :)
 

Chemmy

Registered User
Nov 7, 2011
7,592
Yorkshire
Please folks ...take this as a warning and yes sort out your accommodation when you are in your. Early 60s , especially if you have an empty nest and are rattling around in a house too big for your needs.
You never know just what is round the corner.
I'll have to get you to have a word with my OH. :D

He's coming round to the idea that we'll downsize 'in a couple of years'.
 

marionq

Registered User
Apr 24, 2013
6,016
Scotland
Very important questions for all of us. Another reason for keeping control of our homes and savings so we can fund any adaptations needed.
Remember that if adaptations are necessary because of a mental or physical condition this will be zero rated for VAT. My husband fell in the shower cabinet recently and we had the whole thing ripped out and reconstructed as a walk in to make it safe. We saved more than £600 on VAT. All it needs is a letter from the GP confirming the changes are for the above reasons.
 

dottyd

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
1,064
n.e.
That's a great point Marion and one I didn't know about.

Was just thinking of my husbands relatives. They lived in a very remote area of Wales and decided to move when early 70 to England to be nearer their children which sounded a great idea.

The plan was to get a bungalow but instead chose an old house because of its beautiful garden. They aren't that close to children either but are at least nearer to civilisation.

They've been there three years so now mid 70s and it shows.
I feel they've missed a golden opportunity by not sticking to the original plan.

When they moved in this house needed a phenomenal amount of work. It seemed like madness to me.
 

Saffie

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
22,506
Near Southampton
It's all very well to say move to a bungalow but to find one isn't always easy. They cost more than houses too .
So many here are being bought bu developers and then built up.
New builds are invariably double or triple storey because they use less land and make more money.
Then again, a bungalow with a large garden is no good either.
I have a dog so the special 'over certain age' places are out.
It's not easy!
 
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Poppyfields

Registered User
Sep 12, 2013
69
Really tricky, as you have to trust family etc. 100% before making arrangements

From personal experience and with a heavy heart, I will say this:

Do not allow the Court of Protection to become involved

If capacity is the issue, a POA/LPA is the road to go down IN ADVANCE

Don't let it get to the point where a deputyship is necessary - and certainly don't allow a "professional" deputy to be appointed - and if you're unlucky enough to find one of them attempting to involve themselves, question everything - in writing and don't believe them if they tell you that it is illegal for relatives or friends to be financial deputies.

If there is strife or family dynamics, don't let outsiders know about it, as they will take it as carte blanche to take control of finances - and ignore the stated wishes and any previous formal arrangements such as a bank mandate that the affected person put in place before their capacity was ever in question
 

LadyA

Registered User
Oct 19, 2009
13,562
Ireland
Goats are escape artists, and only eat grass once there's nothing else left!! Every now and then, my neighbours and I half jokingly talk about buying a lamb or two in the Spring, using them as lawnmowers through the Summer and Autumn, and sending them for "conversion" into chops etc before Christmas! :D
 

dottyd

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
1,064
n.e.
I was a deputy for my aunt.
Horrible, horrible stressful form to fill in every year.

I'm going to get my poa done Asap
 

wazzer

Registered User
Jun 4, 2008
112
North west England.
I only wish........

I only wish I had known 15 years ago, twelve months before my mother developed this horrible disease how I could have protected her assets. Now, her house has gone (had to sell to pay her care home fees on a Deferred Payment Scheme), what savings she had have now almost dwindled away. I am my mothers Deputy and all in all I reckon about seventy to eighty thousand pound over the last 14 years.
It really annoys me that my mum having worked all her life, paid a National Insurance Stamp all her life, bought and paid for her own house, paid all her dues, everything and because Alzheimers is not classed as an 'illness' she has had to fund everything herself until her assets reached £23500 when the Local Authority began part-funding her care (but only on a sliding scale). Is there another 'social disease where this is allowed to happen'?
But for me, I have learned a lot over this time and because no-one knows for sure if Alzheimers is hereditary or not, I have now, (and Jennifer is right) put the family home to 'Tenants in common' so if the worst does happen they will only get half of the value of our house and I do not think any Local Authority will take 'half' of a house. I have also done LPA's for everything (Financial and Health & Welfare).
If the worst does happen then now I know that I have done all I can to protect my assets.
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
4,774
Salford
Just in case you don't know wazzer they can't touch the house if your partner is living there so they won't get any of the value of the house nor can they put a DPS on it.
It's also important to split money into each name and have a certain amount of "joint" money in case there ever is a financial assessment.
I found out the hard way that anything in joint names is half my wife's even though every deposit in the account in the past 10 years was made by me it's still half hers and all the money that she paid into an account that's in her name is all hers.
AZ isn't as you say a disease just like potatoes aren't a vegetable so they're not one of your 5 a day, logic, what logic?
K
 

dottyd

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
1,064
n.e.
Agree wazzer
My mum paid £90,000 in 3.5 years and my aunt £125,000 in slightly more years.

There's no fairness in the system.

That's what sticks in people's throats.

An LA council assessor came and said when doing the assessment for the care home...something along the lines of mum having no need of her house.

This is the ( small , modest ) house my parents both bequeathed to me.

It's just wrong that all of that is taken away.

I'd be more than happy to give away half the house and mum not to a receive a state pension.

I stupidly voted for David Cameron as he was going to cap care fees...and he reneged on his promise.

I know my view won't be popular on here but I think a lot of us have put up and shut up far too long.

Mums house is worth £80,000. I would be happy with £40,000 and the government keep her state pension , attendance allowance and dads pension .
Time to bring fairness back. Those without assists live for free.
I don't have a problem with that. We should look after those less fortunate.

It's what happens to the others that hurts.
 

nicoise

Registered User
Jun 29, 2010
1,806
Dottyd: "I know my view won't be popular on here but I think a lot of us have put up and shut up far too long."
I don't think your view will be unpopular; it is something that many of us on here faced with organising payment for care or care home fees on behalf of our family member with dementia will probably have thought. And certainly was a shocking eye-opener for me when I started looking into the future for looking after my mum as her illness worsened. I had no idea what was involved with care at home or residentially, and how "the system" works.

But after feeling frustrated or angry with "the system", it dawns on most of us that we are exhausted and drained enough with the caring role that we don't have any energy left to fight what seems a very unjust situation.

There is also the truth that whatever might have been written in a will only comes to fruition after the testator's death; if the asset is still owned at that point then it can pass to the intended beneficiary; if it has been sold or disposed of then it cannot.

It is a relatively recent situation that people have houses they own that could be left to beneficiaries; my parents received very little from their parents, but having bought property at a price which then increased dramatically from that time over the years, meant that their house was worth a great deal comparatively. Enough to fund several years of residential care - that rainy day my mum saved for. That "pot" was hers to be spent to look after her - it wasn't intended to be passed on as an inheritance. What was left was a pleasant bonus, but I wish she had spent all of it on enjoying and treating herself when well.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
11,373
South coast
There is also the point that if the person who has to go into a CH has no savings - yes, the LA will pay - but only up to a certain amount. Either you have to accept wherever the LA will place your relative in a CH. or the family has to pay "top-up" fees. OH and I have worked out out wills so that in addition to his half of the house being left to our children, his half of our savings will be available for the family to pay top-up fees. should I have to go into a CH too (this assumes that he will die before me, which is most likely, but the reciprocal arrangement has been made too)
 

Beetroot

Registered User
Aug 19, 2015
362
I don't think your view will be unpopular; it is something that many of us on here faced with organising payment for care or care home fees on behalf of our family member with dementia will probably have thought. And certainly was a shocking eye-opener for me when I started looking into the future for looking after my mum as her illness worsened. I had no idea what was involved with care at home or residentially, and how "the system" works.

But after feeling frustrated or angry with "the system", it dawns on most of us that we are exhausted and drained enough with the caring role that we don't have any energy left to fight what seems a very unjust situation.

There is also the truth that whatever might have been written in a will only comes to fruition after the testator's death; if the asset is still owned at that point then it can pass to the intended beneficiary; if it has been sold or disposed of then it cannot.

It is a relatively recent situation that people have houses they own that could be left to beneficiaries; my parents received very little from their parents, but having bought property at a price which then increased dramatically from that time over the years, meant that their house was worth a great deal comparatively. Enough to fund several years of residential care - that rainy day my mum saved for. That "pot" was hers to be spent to look after her - it wasn't intended to be passed on as an inheritance. What was left was a pleasant bonus, but I wish she had spent all of it on enjoying and treating herself when well.
Although the price of the home doesn't always equate with care standards, the cash buys you a choice you don't have if you are wholly state funded when it comes to care homes, or the time the carer is with the pwd if they live at home. What is egregious is the subject of Fizzie's petition: cases where the L A pays less than the privately funded person for the same care home. That is, effectively, a stealth tax on the privately funded individual.
 

Ihtl

Registered User
Jan 19, 2016
82
I think had my parents been able to see into the future or had better advice, they definitely would've put their house into trust for myself and my siblings. Or at least become tenants in common and willed their half to us.

I know I don't 'deserve' a share of my parents' home, but I find it hard not to feel somewhat aggrieved seeing as caring for my dad has meant giving up a career (currently even a job) so I don't even have a chance to rent at the moment.

It also feels unfair that the house isn't protected simply because my mum lost her life, talk about double whammy.
 

Ihtl

Registered User
Jan 19, 2016
82
What is egregious is the subject of Fizzie's petition: cases where the L A pays less than the privately funded person for the same care home. That is, effectively, a stealth tax on the privately funded individual.
Yes, this seems particularly unfair too. You have your own home or savings so you get to pay more for the same service.
 

Saffie

Registered User
Mar 26, 2011
22,506
Near Southampton
Unless someone is in receipt of CHC funding - and yes, the allocation of that is massively unfair as we know and mainly because different authorities set different criteria or interpret them differently - nobody 'lives for free' as everybody else has to pay towards their care if they reside in a care or nursing home.
However nobody lives for free out of a nursing home either and life itself is unfair.

Any thread on TP which brings up the topic of inheritance of a house invariably ends up being closed die to disagreements - but the fact that anything bequeathed means nothing until after death is irrefutable I'm afraid.
 

la lucia

Registered User
Jul 3, 2011
591
This is what happens when everything is seen as a business possibility instead of a collective/state issue.

Where my mother lives the local authority care homes were very good and the rate that the LA originally agreed to pay towards residential care reflected the cost of care in a LA care home. But now, years later, the figures have drifted apart and the LA care homes have closed.

Sadly, the elderly, and care in general, has come to be seen as a business opportunity and the business models that SOME of them run on are questionable. But not all.

There's a couple of independent care homes near us that probably make a minimal profit and are not too expensive, relatively speaking. The one my late father was in towards the end of his life was started by a pair of state registered psychiatric nurses who had big ideals about how they wanted to see EMI care carried out.

In a way, if we had to pay (and we did), I'm glad it was to a place like that where he was well looked after and it was such a special place to be.

But in too many places, including with domiciliary care, despite the best will of the front line staff, the business model dictates the terms and these, even if adequate, neither benefit the pwds nor reflect the real costs of decent care. They're profit driven.

Hopefully, new ideas will come along, collectives maybe or co-operative models of care - that's what I fantasise about when wrestling with this subject in my head as I deal with the never-ending layers of bureaucracy.......