Signing for care home as advocate

[Fearnodarkness]

We are looking at a contract for a care home for his Mum.

paragraph 8 is "Advocacy" and says ... if the Service User (mum) is unable to sign this care agreement themselves, the person who signs this care agreement accepts the responsibilities detailed within the Agreement including the payment of fees and other charges."

I've heard stuff going round where families have signed contracts and been made liable for family members' fees. What concerns me is, if we have to sign to accept responsibiity for payment of fees, and if mum's money runs out, will the Social Services claim that she still has resources (us) and will therefore not take over her care costs if she drops below £23,000/£14,000 (approx figures as of now)?

Has anyone else come across this situation? I haven't met anyone who has, but I hear it is becoming more common.

We can't afford to finance her care or top up fees - so it looks as if we would have to move her in order to terminate the contract if the home would look to us (rather than the Social Service) for fees if Mum runs out of money. This at a time of life when moving her would probably not be a good idea. The Home itself is quite upfront but I don't think they can actually give any practical help dealing with Social Services, except they did advise that it can take over a year for assessment and the Services taking over responsibility, or accepting that they will need to.

Can anyone give any words of wisdom?

Thanks. (and Happy New Year - not the happiest topic!)

 

[Baker17]

We are looking at a contract for a care home for his Mum.

paragraph 8 is "Advocacy" and says ... if the Service User (mum) is unable to sign this care agreement themselves, the person who signs this care agreement accepts the responsibilities detailed within the Agreement including the payment of fees and other charges."

I've heard stuff going round where families have signed contracts and been made liable for family members' fees. What concerns me is, if we have to sign to accept responsibiity for payment of fees, and if mum's money runs out, will the Social Services claim that she still has resources (us) and will therefore not take over her care costs if she drops below £23,000/£14,000 (approx figures as of now)?

Has anyone else come across this situation? I haven't met anyone who has, but I hear it is becoming more common.

We can't afford to finance her care or top up fees - so it looks as if we would have to move her in order to terminate the contract if the home would look to us (rather than the Social Service) for fees if Mum runs out of money. This at a time of life when moving her would probably not be a good idea. The Home itself is quite upfront but I don't think they can actually give any practical help dealing with Social Services, except they did advise that it can take over a year for assessment and the Services taking over responsibility, or accepting that they will need to.

Can anyone give any words of wisdom?

Thanks. (and Happy New Year - not the happiest topic!)

My husband was self funding and I knew he would qualify for funding from 1st January due to reaching £23500 level, I had a financial assessment done in August by the finanacial arm of our SS department and they worked out how much they would contribute and how much of his pension would be used and how much he would need to contribute from his capital, he is allowed £30 per week for personal spending out of his pension. There is a £70 per week top up to pay but I am paying that because I want him to remain there. Interestingly when his social worked brought up about moving him(another sore subject but won’t bore you with that) I told her I couldn’t pay more top than this and she said there are ways and means, I found out that most homes have a couple of beds which they are happy to have people in which are totally funded without paying the top up, so in my case if I didn’t or couldn’t pay the top up they would pay £555 per week instead of £625 which the home is charging me but this would be up to social services to agree, I have signed a contract with the home, hope this goes some way to helping you

 

[Amy in the US]

Hello, @Fearnodarkness, and sorry you are dealing with this.

I'm in the States so likely my experience has no legal bearing, but I signed the care home contract for my mother as her Power of Attorney and faced the same issue. There was a clause that wanted me to sign, as myself, stating I would be financially responsible for fees and costs if my mother, for any reason, could/did not. I smelled a rat, called her solicitor/lawyer/attorney, and was advised in the strongest possible terms NOT to sign that section.

I had to meet with the care home manager but when I politely yet firmly told the manager that, on legal advice, I declined that section, he blustered a bit and had to call his manager, but we proceeding without much delay and my mother has lived there for three years now.

You always have to read the fine print carefully.

I hope you are able to get the right placement without jeopardizing your finances.

I wonder if Age UK or another agency could advise? They have a helpline. Best wishes.

 

[nitram]

Assuming person lacks capacity.

Do you have LPA?
If not you have no authority to sign any contract on behalf of the resident.

If you have LPA make sure that somewhere the document says something like ''contract between <care home> and <resident>' and where it asks for a signature print the residents name and sign <your name> POA for <resident> .
Amend the document if required and get the care home to initial the changes.

If the person is LA assisted don't sign anything with the home, the contract is with the LA, If a top up is to be paid pay this directly to the LA.

 

[Fearnodarkness]

Thank you to all who replied. Being in the UK, I think the advice about "signing as POA" is particularly significant, but it is all helpful. (The home has indeed hinted that if money got scarce in her later years they may be able to make accommodations. Though I don't know if it will be practical for her to stay there all her life, for other reasons. That is something which will just have to unfold.)

The home has told me verbally that the intention is only for the "Advocate" to manage the user's finances, not to be personally liable. I suggested a minor variation on the wording, which doesn't alter their position (particularly if what she told me is correct) but I haven't heard back from them yet (it's now the weekend) which worries me - she implied they would contact me yesterday. She may be worried by the idea of making a written amendment, but we are freelances and used to making alterations to contracts. She said "this was drawn up by a lawyer so we would have to go back to them" but that isn't actually the case, though I understand her concern. And there seems to be an inconsistency in what we were told about the room.

I believe my MIL still has capacity to sign for herself, which would be better (she understands most of what she is told, but can't remember it shortly afterwards). She is perfectly capable of making choices, but has a tendency to make assumptions based on what she knew before the Alzheimers encroached. It may depend on what the home would accept. But we only see her once a week, being at a distance, and if we can't get an agreement this weekend, we are looking at delay, or having to drive up to her area again during the week, which is a real strain on us.

So now it seems to be a case of "hurry up and wait". I haven't been able to get hold of her friendly legal adviser in the meantime, so maybe waiting is a good thing.

 

[love.dad.but..]

When I signed as poa for dad there was a part on the nursing home contract form that particularly stated that