Selling house under POA to pay NH - mum now end of life! Not exchanged/completed

[Shabba]

Have a word with your solicitor/conveyancer.

Who is currently deemed to be selling the house? You or your mum? If you are named as the seller- and when all is said and done, you'll be the one signing on the dotted line.

As long as the sale money is declared ( should the worst happen) I cannot see that a physical property, or the value of it makes a great deal of difference.

The only downside is, a probate valuation of a property is often lower than a market valuation, hence your IT liability is less.

Thank you Jessbow. Me and my brothers names as POA for Mrs ...... are deemed to be selling the house. Thanks for taking the time to reply

 

[Shabba]

Actually, the solicitor was correct to do this - once the donor of the LPA has died, the LPA no longer exists, and all powers of attorney cease.

Accessing accounts after the person has died is not legal, unless the account is a joint one. The executor can be given statements by banks to help fill out probate and tax forms - perhaps in your case the solicitor was acting as executor?

So it is perfectly normal to close accounts, and utilities etc are used to having to wait for final settlement of their bills until after probate has been granted. Funeral bills and tax can be paid directly from those accounts, however.

Thank you for replying, as ever all adivice from the great people on here is really helpful

 

[100 miles]

Shabba,

When I was sorting out probate for my mother's estate I came across something that said probate could be fast tracked in cases like this where a house was in the process of being sold.

I have known people start to prepare for probate/ Inheritance Tax during the twilight days as their parent fades. It sounds a bit money grabbing, but it is quite practical if the house is already up for sale, parent is in a home and you are trying to get to grips with sorting their affairs.

I hope your mother is comfortable.

Best wishes,

100 miles

 

[Shabba]

If your mother dies post contract exchange and pre completion, I can't see there will be a problem. If she dies pre contract exchange, I'd just explain it to the buyers and get probate as fast as you can. Probate doesn't have to take that long, it's really dependent on how quickly third parties reply to questions so you can fill in the form. You can use sensible estimates. If I were you, I'd call the probate and IHT help lines now so you're not starting at the beginning in those awful first days of loss. Explain the problem and ask them what they'll accept in the way of estimates. You can submit an amended return when you have exact figures for e.g. income tax repayment, but at least you'll have a Grant to enable you proceed with the house sale. On the subject of valuation, the probate value is supposed to be an open market value. People try to pitch it lower to save inheritance tax, but the Capital Taxes office of the Revenue expect you to have an independent valuation done and will argue the toss if they don't agree with it. That said, as the house is under offer, you'd use that value anyway.

Thank you Beetroot, good advice. I'll ring them. I suppose as the valuation is independent estate agent we can quote the exact figure. Take care

 

[Shabba]

Speak to your solicitor.... I'm fairly sure that you will be able to buy an Indemnity Insurance to cover the eventuality of Death before Completion for not very much money This would remove this particular panic.

Good Luck, it's not an easy time.x.x

Thanks Cragmaid, think I will speak to solicitor to get opinion on everything.

 

[Shabba]

That would actually give you the biggest headache. If you have exchanged contracts you will at that point have agreed a completion date. If you can't comply with that date because sadly your mum has passed away and you can no longer transfer the house under the POA then the buyers are going to have contractual rights against your mum's estate for any losses incurred . They might for example have exchanged contracts on their related sale and the whole chain will be held up until you get Probate. Whilst the Buyers might be sympathetic people down the chain might not be.

I would speak to your solicitor and instruct them not to exchange contracts until the day of completion.

Thank you sue38, fortunately the buyer is first time buyer, so no chain. Will speak to solicitor for advice

 

[Shabba]

I handled both applying for probate myself and house sale after FIL died. Tbh from my own house sales and selling dads house last year if the survey has only just been carried out the process seems still to be in early stage. Average 4 months for dads house with no complications just solicitors dragging things out. However when I put FIL house on the market it was with probate applied for but not yet received which apparently is common practice the agent said and this was made clear to viewers. Probate came through in 5 weeks. So long as everyone is aware and the buyer sticks with the purchase once they have been informed other than your legal commitment after exchange being clarified to you by your solicitor now and I think I have heard of the indemnity option I can't see there being a problem providing in the event of your mums death you are named as executor to handle her estate.

Thank you for replying with good advice.

 

[Shabba]

Shabba,

When I was sorting out probate for my mother's estate I came across something that said probate could be fast tracked in cases like this where a house was in the process of being sold.

I have known people start to prepare for probate/ Inheritance Tax during the twilight days as their parent fades. It sounds a bit money grabbing, but it is quite practical if the house is already up for sale, parent is in a home and you are trying to get to grips with sorting their affairs.

I hope your mother is comfortable.

Best wishes,

100 miles

Thank you for replying, I agree, that's why I thought I'd ask all the lovely people on here now for their advice/experiences, I hesitated to ask as it does seem a bit "money grabbing", but its all such a minefield to negotiate as well as being emotionally draining time anyway. Take care

 

[love.dad.but..]

Thank you for replying, I agree, that's why I thought I'd ask all the lovely people on here now for their advice/experiences, I hesitated to ask as it does seem a bit "money grabbing", but its all such a minefield to negotiate as well as being emotionally draining time anyway. Take care

No Shabba it isn't being money grabbing...you are being practical and trying to be informed so that you can make sure you have covered everything and get no major surprises in dealing with your mums affairs when the time comes. Mum died suddenly 3 years ago and I dealt with everything then Dad has been in a care home almost 3 years and is in advanced stage, sold his house to pay for fees....I quite often find information ahead of when I am likely to need to know as it makes things easier I think

Hopefully you will get definitive advice from a professional and I wish you all the best to you and a comfortable time for your dear mum.

 

[Pickles53]

I had the same problem, had my dads flat up for sale since September, sadly he passed away in December and I am now doing probate theory Solictor, he advised leave it on the market and advise potential buyers that they would have to wait whilst probate is going through. So I am just waiting now.... if a buyer comes up they will be advised of the situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Talking Point

This is similar to what happened with my mum's house. We were just getting ready to put it up for sale when she died. We advised potential buyers of the situation and had no problem finding a buyer who was willing to wait until probate was granted. We definitely did exchange and completion on the same day; I don't think that's unusual in any case.

 

[Beguiled]

It is perfectly possible legally to exchange and complete at the same time - there doesn't have to be a gap between the two. A gap can useful to finalize a date with a removal company but that wouldn't be a consideration if you are able to empty the house before then.

 

[Shedrech]

hi Shabba
having just gone through the selling of dad's house (he's living in a care home now), I'd recommend having exchange and completion as close as you possibly can - the house was sold to a first time buyer, so no chain, thank goodness - but I was so jumpy in the couple of weeks between exchange and completion as the house was empty and cleared and I feared something happening which would cause damage while the house was still dad's property