Second POA-Morals!

[gkcannon1982]

Hi.

So I’m an only child and my dad was an older dad. My mum left when I was young and he brought me up so we have a super special relationship. He has mixed dementia which has progressed quickly. I’m heartbroken as very hard.

Anyway he was sectioned before Christmas and now is finally in a wonderful nursing home.

I’m a nurse and I struggled with guilt over not being able to care for him but I realise and have accepted nursing care gives him the best quality of life.

I have POA for finance and property. Dad is funded under section 117. He owns his own and has a final salary pension so financially no issues.

Im going to rent his home out as a holiday home so we can keep it.

He has a will of which I’m the only beneficiary.

He set up the POA 12 years ago and I am one and an old family friend abeit a newish one!

However the documents specifically say all decisions can be made individually. The only time a joint decision is required is if the house needs to be sold.

This second POA has not seen me or my Dad since pre covid. No issues or callings out just circumstances. I reached out to her in November and we are to meet up to catch up.

The day we were due to meet Dad was sectioned so she was aware and this was 2nd December 2023. I heard nothing at all from them.

I realised I had to implement the POA as Dad needed supplies so set it up with the bank. The bank then wrote to the second POA, no idea what was said. Then put the blue the person contacted me asking for the original document. I said I couldn’t send it as it was with the social worker. It’s now with the nursing home. I need it to move forward with my Dads home etc.

Not once has she asked how he is or asked to visit him. She is requesting the documents as a matter of urgency and wants to meet up to talk and says things need to be discussed that are not for my children’s ears so I can’t bring them.

Basically I have no issues with her but morally I feel this is inappropriate as she has not seen Dad since 2019. I don’t need her input. I need some advice as what to do if I’m honest.

 

[maggie6445]

Hello @gkcannon1982 , welcome to the forum.
I can see that from your point view it is easier if there is only you having access and administration of your dad's finances. You don't say how old you are but is the 1982.your birth year? If so you would have been quite young when the LPA was done 12 years ago and your dad may have felt you could need financial advice and support. As we get older and financially wiser we don't need it. Do you think this lady may be overzealous in carrying out a duty that your dad asked her to do 12 years ago or do you feel there are other motives in wanting to be involved?
I don't know if you are aware but new LPAs can be viewed on line by organisations once an attorney gives them a code . I'm not sure if one as old as yours can be accessed this way but she may be able to ask for codes to give to organisations and access his accounts that way.
Maybe try to meet up with her and discuss why there is the urgency to have the documents. You can then assess if you feel her motives are reasonable and go from there.
Not sure how helpful that is to you. Others may be along later . I've been on night toilet duty with my OH which is why I'm posting at this unearthly hour 🤣

 

[Jessbow]

Please dont ever let the POA out of your posession
Nursing home may need sight of it, but they shouldnt have it/keep it
Likwise Social worker- she can see it, copy it for her records, but she shoudnt keep it - and she shoud know that.

Quite simply - If its lost, you are lost!

Meet with her, sort out whatever she wants discussing and carry on- you can act on your own- she has no authority to tell you to do XYZ- you are equal.
She sounds over cautious

 

[Banjomansmate]

You can get Certified copies of the LPA to show /send to various organisations, you never give them the original. They can then make their own copy for their files. If necessary your fellow Attorney could have her own Certified copy but you need the Banks to know that you are handling all the financial decisions.
Thankfully The Banjoman’s family left me to get on with all his finances although his ex wife decided to put her oar in saying “Shouldn’t it be a member of his family looking after his money?”. She was told in no uncertain terms that I was doing a good job!

Different Banks work differently. When I started as Attorney I took my copy of LPA in to a branch of Halifax and they set everything up for me without approaching any of the other attorneys. Several years later we found a Barclays account with very little money in it and another attorney sorted that out to close it and Barclays contacted all the attorneys. This may be what has happened in your case.

I don’t know how old your children are but I don’t see that the second attorney can make conditions on who can be at any meeting. Obviously it would be difficult if they were toddlers creating havoc but otherwise there is no reason why any meeting should be secret!

 

[nitram]

I agree do not let POA out of your possession, even giving it to people to copy can lead to lost sheets and if autofeed is used damaged sheets.
You can have certified copies made, don't give them out for people to keep just let them make a copy.

Make, register or end a lasting power of attorney

How to make a lasting power of attorney (LPA): starting an application online, choosing an attorney, certifying a copy, changing an LPA.

www.gov.uk

The other attorney has a legal duty to carry out the terms of the power and has been informed by the bank that it is being used.
It sounds as if they my not have a copy in which case it is reasonable to ask for one, the OPG will have sent the original to whoever registered the power, it was up to that person to arrange certified copies for all attorneys.

You could check with the other attorney if lack of a copy is the problem and if it is offer to send them a certified copy to study, this may negate their need for a meeting.

The wording about joint responsibility on selling house may mean that discussion is required now that he has no further need of it.

 

[Bod]

"He set up the POA 12 years ago and I am one and an old family friend abeit a newish one!"
@gkcannon1982
The PoA, was this set up at one time with the both of you, or was the other person added later?
Is the PoA for both finance and Property? Or just one or the other.
Take note of the warnings about losing the original PoA without it YOU are in great difficulty.

Bod

 

[nitram]

Take note of the warnings about losing the original PoA without it YOU are in great difficulty.

A grovelling explanation and £35 (LPA) or £25(EPA) to the OPG will provide an office copy

I have lost my LPA and need a new copy?
Office copies are available in exceptional circumstances only, they cost £35 for an LPA, and £25 for an Enduring Lasting Power of Attorney (EPA).

You can email your request to opg_office_copy@publicguardian.gov.uk. Please include the reason, the donor’s full name and date of birth, the reference number (if known), your name, your role on the LPA or EPA, and a telephone number so we can call to take a payment.

Alternatively, you can call the office copies team on 0300 456 0300, selecting option 2 followed by option 2 again. The team is available from Monday to Friday between 9.00am and 3.30pm (Mon-Fri 09:00-15:30). Please be aware the team are closed on Wednesdays 9.00am until 10

https://publicguardian.blog.gov.uk/2024/02/13/your-questions-answered-using-your-lpa/

You used to be given two free office copies on request when registering with OPG, I had these and they were not trouble free, they were obviously copies with no certification statement and signature, instead they had 'certified' punched across bottom of each sheet which people rarely noticed.

 

[MarieD]

I agree with everyone else you should never send out the original copy of the POA you can get certified copies from a solicitor they don’t cost much ( I think I paid £5 )
These are just printed copies signed
The other POA does not need the original
Please be aware though that the other attorney can also register to be on any of your fathers bank accounts etc and take out money as she sees fit that benefits your father if she wishes.

I would say it’s advisable to meet up with her and give her a certified copy she does not need the original copy ( don’t let this out of your possession)
See what she has to say and then take it from there.
Good luck x