Registering an ENDURING power of attorney

[Beachybird]

Can anyone help with a few questions on this subject please.
Has anyone had to register an EPA recently that can let me know how long it took.
Also does anyone know what powers you have whilst you are waiting for it to be registered. I am finding it difficult as my mom is now loosing capacity so i applied to register but she also needs to go into care and I need to be able to pay for that care from her money is this possible .
It is crazy to believe that once someone starts to loose capacity a time when they need more help to deal with financial affairs that you hands get tied I have been able to access her bank account through the unregistered POA up until now.
Any advice from someone who has been through this process would be very grateful.

 

[Jessbow]

It takes a while. You have little authority while its being processed officially. Doyou hav your name on mum account?

 

[Bod]

I would ask, can an Enduring PoA still be registered?

Bod

 

[nitram]

I would ask, can an Enduring PoA still be registered?

Yes, when the donor is thought to be loosing capacity, but not made, replaced by LPA in Oct 2007

 

[Lakshmi]

Hello Beachy bird
My husband and myself went to a solicitor regarding power of attorney for health and Financial and Property. I found that LPA is recommended and we were given good advice for us it was worth the money. The Office of The Public Guardian is very slow. Unfortunately my husband now has mixed dementia so I have had to use it hope that is helpful. I wish you good luck.

 

[georgialz]

Hello Beachy bird
My husband and myself went to a solicitor regarding power of attorney for health and Financial and Property. I found that LPA is recommended and we were given good advice for us it was worth the money. The Office of The Public Guardian is very slow. Unfortunately my husband now has mixed dementia so I have had to use it hope that is helpful. I wish you good luck.

you can use a solicitor but you can also do it yourself at home. just something to mention as solicitor fees can increase the total cost by many hundreds of pounds

 

[Jay M]

It is crazy to believe that once someone starts to loose capacity a time when they need more help to deal with financial affairs that you hands get tied I have been able to access her bank account through the unregistered POA up until now.

Did you mean to write ‘I have not been able to access her bank account’?

In theory an unregistered EPA is equivalent to a general power of attorney while the donor still has capacity. Once it is registered it is valid when the donor is losing/has lost capacity (and only then should it be registered). Unfortunately not all banks seem to know this and some will refuse an unregistered EPA.

If you do have access to her bank account with the unregistered EPA, then personally I would wait till you get the registered EPA back from OPG before telling the bank that she is losing capacity. Registration of LPAs witht the OPG takes about 20 weeks and I assume the same applies to EPAs.

 

[Imogenlily]

Hi

Me and my brother are Lasting Power for our mum who has Alzheimers. We got it done this year. It was a very long winded process, but I think once you have it done it's well worth it.

So based on my personal experience here's some advice/tips:

• Enduring PoA is now called Lasting PoA - it's the same just with a different name.
• Your mum has to agree to you having lasting power and sign it, LPoA is her requesting this.
• You can fill out the forms with guidance here: https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney
• You need a solicitor, GP, health professional or a friend/relative/neighbor/co-worker who has known your mum for two or more years to sign as well.
• You can have more than one power of attorney for your mum, for example siblings etc - but only do this if you are close with someone, because if you don't you'll be in for a world of stress and heartache if you can't agree on anything. You can make decisions jointly if there are two or more - this means you have to agree before decisions are made. Also if something happens to one of you the remaining attournies (what you're called) then can't act. You can also make decisions seperately meaning you don't need the agreement of the other attorney/ies (esp in an emergency)
• Get your mum - both in writing and recording (ideally with video but at least voice - use can use a recording mobile app/video on camera) to state her desires and wishes: for example, hard as it is, what are her wishes about life support, resuscitation etc. It's a horrible but necessary conversation
• There are two types of Lasting Power of attorney: medical/health and legal/financial/property. You can apply for one or both. I selected both, you can do them at the same time. Medical does include things like end of life, but also allows you access to medical records - for example GP or hospital reports. Without PoA most won't talk to you due to patient confidentiality, POA changes that.
• You can opt to have people offically notified about your application for POA - so for example relatives etc (there's more on this below)
• There are some limitations with POA. You have to be seen as acting in the person's best interest, also while they are considered to have mental capacity you cannot make overriding/unilateral decisions. It's more a safety net for when that does happen
• time wise - it takes a long time. I was told due to covid and backlogs my application would take twenty weeks - it probably took closer to twenty three weeks.
• Once your application is accepted - that doesn't mean it's all sorted (sorry). Anyone who has been notified offically about the POA (as in mentioned on the form, not people you tell verbally) has two weeks to raise any objections. You will be sent paperwork.
• If there are no objections, then your application will be confirmed. This can take up to about another month (roughly). You will be sent paperwork about this
• Then you and your mum will be sent the confirmation - if your mum looses paperwork, consider keeping it safe. The paperwork will have unique codes for one or both LPOA your mum's codes will be different. It's *essential* you keep these safe. Take photos of them with your phone, scan and print them, email copes to yourself - use a bunch of methods (not just one) as you will not be able to do much without the codes
• Once you have the codes you can *then* register them at the government website, it will allow you to notify organizations to tell e.g. GP, banks etc.
• A lot of organisations will have forms you can fill out registering you as a LPoA - but you will not be able to do these until you get the codes - so I'm afraid it'll be quite a long wait. Make sure you also tell people like the GP (both yours and your mum) as they will be able to offer you support as a carer reguardless of whether you are an offical (ie paid) carer or not - and trust me you are a carer (took me a while to realize I was a carer)

I think that's everything - sorry it's long, but I wanted to be as through as possible. Please feel free to ask me stuff. I'm by no means an expert, it's just what I remember from doing it myself a few months back.

It's definitely worth doing - but make sure to apply for lasting, not enduring and just be patient. It's a long, boring process. Generally add two weeks on for any times they give you to get paperwork back etc.

Please let us know how things go. I hope this helps!

ETA: Sorry I made some mistakes, thank you for pointing them out (why you should never write in the middle of the night). I've corrected them in the post. There is an 'ordinary' PoA which is the temporary one: https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/power-of-attorney/

There's an official information here that explains the process in detail: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ney-a-guide-web-version#how-to-use-this-guide

Sorry about the errors!

 

[Louise7]

Can anyone help with a few questions on this subject please.
Has anyone had to register an EPA recently that can let me know how long it took.
Also does anyone know what powers you have whilst you are waiting for it to be registered. I am finding it difficult as my mom is now loosing capacity so i applied to register but she also needs to go into care and I need to be able to pay for that care from her money is this possible .
It is crazy to believe that once someone starts to loose capacity a time when they need more help to deal with financial affairs that you hands get tied I have been able to access her bank account through the unregistered POA up until now.
Any advice from someone who has been through this process would be very grateful.

Hello @Beachybird and welcome. I don't have personal experience of an Enduring power of Attorney (EPA) but the OPG state that the current wait times for registration is 8 - 10 weeks, but longer if anyone objects:

https://www.gov.uk/enduring-power-attorney-duties/register-an-enduring-power-of-attorney

I've found that the OPG are quick at answering general queries so it might be worth giving them a call or sending an email to confirm what powers you have whilst the EPA registration is going through. Their contact details are:

Office of the Public Guardian
customerservices@publicguardian.gov.uk
Telephone: 0300 456 0300
Textphone: 0115 934 2778
Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, 9.30am to 5pm
Wednesday, 10am to 5pm
Find out about call charges

Office of the Public Guardian
PO Box 16185
Birmingham
B2 2WH

Hope this helps.

 

[Jessbow]

Just to clarify things - sorry if you already know this - an *enduring* power of attorney is only temporary, for example if someone needs to go to hospital and won't be able to manage their affairs during that time period.

With dementia because it's on going I think you'll need a *lasting* power of attorney - this has no time limit and essentially gives you more power for when things get bad.



That isnt correct

Only EPAs made and signed before October 1, 2007 can still be used. After that date donors had to make a lasting power of attorney (LPA) instead.

 

[lollyc]

LPA does NOThave to be signed by a solicitor. We did the whole thing ourselves, and Mum's ceritifier was her hairdresser who had known her 30 years. Witnesses where her neighbours. Had no problems registering it and using it.

 

[Jessbow]

POA is drawn up and actioned - never heard of a temp one. You either appoint a POA or you dont

Once someone loses capasity they cannot usually appoint one.

 

[nitram]

POA is drawn up and actioned - never heard of a temp one. You either appoint a POA or you dont

Once someone loses capasity they cannot usually appoint one.

Most of
https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/thr...nduring-power-of-attorney.136132/post-1919357 . is misleading.
It also based on somebody applying to be LPA for somebody else including

I think your mum will need to sign it

mum has to sign it is her application, with capacity, requesting the court to appoint her choice of attorney.

 

[Adismaggie]

Can anyone help with a few questions on this subject please.
Has anyone had to register an EPA recently that can let me know how long it took.
Also does anyone know what powers you have whilst you are waiting for it to be registered. I am finding it difficult as my mom is now loosing capacity so i applied to register but she also needs to go into care and I need to be able to pay for that care from her money is this possible .
It is crazy to believe that once someone starts to loose capacity a time when they need more help to deal with financial affairs that you hands get tied I have been able to access her bank account through the unregistered POA up until now.
Any advice from someone who has been through this process would be very grateful.

We are currently registering our mother’s 2005 EPA using our solicitor. Mum has lost capacity, but this did not stop us using the EPA unregistered since June 2021. EPAs are still valid if they were created before 2007. Our solicitor said registering may take a fair bit of time through the Court at present - up to one year has been suggested - but this does not stop us paying Mum’s care home fees. All the best.

 

[nitram]

Mum has lost capacity, but this did not stop us using the EPA unregistered since June 2021.

Unlike LPAs, EPAs can be used without being registered if the ‘donor’ (the person who made the EPA) still has mental capacity – the ability to make decisions for themselves.

If the donor has lost mental capacity, the EPA must either:

• be registered by the Office of the Public Guardian (OPG)
• have already been registered by the Public Guardianship Office – the body OPG replaced

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi... , EPAs can be,of the Public Guardian ( OPG ) .

 

[Scarlet Lady]

Sorry to wade into this : I was determined I wasn’t going to. Can I just say that an Enduring Power of Attorney is NOT a Lasting Power of Attorney under another name. It is a completely different document (admittedly with some similarities) which was replaced in 2007 with the current Lasting Power of Attorney. You cannot confuse the two.
Basically, an EPA (unlike an LPA) only needed to be registered with the Court of Protection (now the Office of Public Guardian) when there was a general consensus that the donor had completely lost capacity to manage their affairs. This was to ensure that the COP/OPG would step in if there was a suggestion of abuse or mismanagement of the donors affairs. This would generally mean that the PWD would not be able to access their money and all responsibility would fall either to the attorney or to COP.
However, before any of that might need to happen, it’s perfectly possible to register an EPA with financial and other institutions for general purposes where the PWD needs a bit of help. I used my aunt’s POA for over five years very satisfactorily without any issues whatsoever. At the start, she had capacity, at the end she certainly didn’t, but the EPA was never formally registered with the OPG and it never needed to be.
It’s true that some banks won’t accept an EPA without it being registered. This seems to me to be outmoded and lacking in understanding of what is admittedly an old document. However, it’s probably not worth arguing about. @nitram is quite right in what he says from a legal perspective. So is @Adismaggie who has found that like me, her experience with an EPA has worked very satisfactorily. Let’s face it, we’re all working with this dreadful disease in the best way we can. Avoiding unnecessary red tape can only be a relief.
I hope you find your way through this maze, @Beachybird .

 

[Beachybird]

It takes a while. You have little authority while its being processed officially. Doyou hav your name on mum account?

Yes I have been dealing with all her finances for some time.