Question about Registered EPA on bank accounts?

Discussion in 'Legal and financial issues' started by CraigC, Apr 16, 2008.

  1. CraigC

    CraigC Registered User

    Mar 21, 2003
    6,630
    London
    Hi All,

    I wonder if anyone can help?

    Should banks always provide you with new cheque books when a 'Registered EPA' is registered against a bank account. And more importantly should the new cheque books (i.e. each cheque) include the POA's name?

    I've got a few reissued cheque books with only my dad's name. Can you sign a cheque as a POA even if you name does not appear on the cheque? They are confusing me as another bank has provided me with a new cheque book with both mine and my father's name on which makes more sense.

    Thanks
    Craig
     
  2. Clive

    Clive Registered User

    Nov 7, 2004
    716
    Hi Craig

    This is another of the grey areas.

    No two banks seem to be the same. I can only tell you what happened to me.

    My mother’s high street bank had no interest at all in issuing a new cheque book. The cheque book is exactly as before. I sign it with no problems for things like Care Home fees but they will NOT give me a cheque guarantee card. (However they have just this week sent mum a new cheque guarantee card even though they know she has AD and the EPA has been registered).

    The only time I have had trouble is when I wanted to open a new account with one of these new (post / internet only) banks that offer a high interest rate.

    They first asked me to send a cheque from mum’s high street bank to prove who she was!!. This had her name on it but my signature. They sent it back and said they could not accept it, but when I took it to a higher level they said it was OK as they had seen the EPA (which had been registered).

    In general none of the bank staff know what they are doing with Power of Attorney.

    Best Wishes

    Clive
     
  3. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    9,519
    Frinton-on-Sea
    Hi Craig. I hold Lionel's EPA, which has been registered.

    Everything I needed to access easily was in joint names anyway except one bank account. Yes, his pension from work, his state benefits all paid into that account. Chequebook in his name only, and I have a totally different surname anyway.

    Bank would not make any changes to the account once the EPA was registered, some four years ago now. So I sign my name on his cheques, which are printed with his name only.

    Only had one occassion when cheque was queried. Funnily enough it was a charity donation he was making, but I soon put them straight. No problems since.
     
  4. gigi

    gigi Registered User

    Nov 16, 2007
    7,788
    East Midlands
    I'm following this with interest..

    Am in a different situation as most of our money is in joint accounts. However..now I have the Certified copies of the EPA my intention is to visit our bank..and building societies..in order to "manipulate" funds to pay off our mortgage..

    It means moving money around..I have to confess I'm not looking forward to it..will let you know how it goes..

    Thanks for highlighting this..it's an area I tend to "push under the carpet"..even though I know I shouldn't..:eek:

    Love gigi xx
     
  5. Tender Face

    Tender Face Account Closed

    Mar 14, 2006
    5,379
    NW England
    Technically they hold no validity .... a registered EPA account should say something along the lines of 'Craig.... as EPA for Dad' .... but banks do differ - and long gone are the days of a clerk sat in the local branch checking a signature was anything resembling the name printed on the cheque (Ooops, shouldn't have said that!!!:rolleyes:)

    I understand the most important legal point is that dad's money is kept seperate from the EPA/LPA and accounted for ... so whether a bank insists on an EPA/LPA being noted on the cheques (rather than the account) is really immaterial to the fundamentals behind the legal and ethical accounting? MICR coding takes care of the rest! ;)

    Love, Karen, x
     
  6. Helena

    Helena Registered User

    May 24, 2006
    715
    Barclays told me that once an EPA was registered it was illegal for the old cheque books to be used and that Banking Law meant everything had to be registered in the attorneys names and address

    That was certainly how I understood it had to be when I worked for Midland Bank years back and when my daughter worked for Lloyds and RBS not that long ago
     
  7. Brucie

    Brucie Registered User

    Jan 31, 2004
    12,413
    near London
    I have a registered EPA for Jan and I have Jan's cheque books and they are in her name alone, and I use them that way - though normally I use the debit card for her account for small amounts or to buy toiletries. The debit card is also in her name, of course, as it is the same account.

    I mostly move money from her account using Internet banking on the rare occasions I need to touch her account.
     
  8. Clive

    Clive Registered User

    Nov 7, 2004
    716
    Hi Craig

    Like Bruce I also now have internet banking on the EPA account so in practice it is quite possible to stop using cheques.


    Several years ago, when the Government stopped issuing Pension Books, I had big big problems with mum. The Government started paying her Pension directly into her Bank Account. This was a concept she could not grasp (“A Bank is for money that you put in yourself as savings, and not for taking money out for grocery shopping”).

    I went into the bank armed only with the unregistered EPA and asked them to print “Mrs A N Jones Pension Account” on the cheques. They agreed and sent me a new cheque book within a few days.

    Possible you could ask the bank to put “Power of Attorney” on the cheques. Some banks want to help their customers and some do not.

    (Unfortunately mum did not understand why the cheques had “Pension Account" printed on them so my bright idea did not work !!)

    Clive
     
  9. CraigC

    CraigC Registered User

    Mar 21, 2003
    6,630
    London
    I am having trouble setting up internet access on these accounts. Even though they had it before, the accounts are all locked and the department dealing with internet banking live in a world of their own it seems. Their world does not understand EPAs at all. The banks have been a mixed bag really, only one seemed to go out of their way to help me when I went into the branch.

    Just one last question.

    If I sign a cheque with dads name on it, do I need to put a note next to the signature? e.g. My Signature (Attorney)? Is that normal practice?

    Just don't fancy the pain of cheques being sent back that's all.

    Many thanks for all the feedback.
    Learning every day.
    Craig
     
  10. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    9,519
    Frinton-on-Sea
    Hi Craig.
    Apart from one cheque queried I have not had any problems. I usually use Lionel debit card for small amounts, but occassionally send small cheques to his old school friends when they have a 'special' birthday. Never had any trouble. Just sign my name.

    I guess if you wanted to be really certain you could put a 'post it' note on the cheque explaining. Trust all goes well.
     
  11. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,418
    While I never did activate my mother's EPA, I was a third-party on her account, and I simply signed her checks with my own name, and no explanation. The only time it was queried was when I filled out a direct debit form, whereupon I discovered that the bank had lost the record of my signature, so all those cheques they had cleared that had done so without checking the signature :eek: Businesses simply don't check the signature - any checking, if any is done, is done at the bank's end (and not, apparently, much of that).

    As to the internet access - the "world's local bank" were never able to set that up for a third party as it "was against their policy". I would have forced it though if I'd had an EPA - the disability rights commission have really pushed this point with the banks. However, I found that the aforementioned bank's internet division were a law unto themselves - they refused on one occasion to communicate with their own branch staff. Truly awful and I was very sorry for their own staff.
     
  12. Clive

    Clive Registered User

    Nov 7, 2004
    716
    Hi Craig

    I have never written anything on the cheque except my signature.


    As I have said often on TP; don’t ever think it is you who is doing anything wrong; it’s the system that does not work. We all have these problems.



    I am currently on day 17 of trying to get money OUT of mum’s High Interest (so called) “ONLINE” account with one bank that (as a matter of usual policy) will not allow access to the “ONLINE” account by personal computer if the account is operated by EPA. (In other words I have to use the “online” account as a postal account but get the higher rate of interest).

    Unfortunately they fail to inform their own staff of this fact and they keep returning the postal withdrawal form with a letter telling me to use my computer. The actual full story is too long and too unbelievable to record here.

    They have promised me £30 compensation; but the money I want to withdraw has still not arrived in mum’s current account !!!!!

    I understand why you don't want it to go wrong when you send off a cheque.

    Keep going

    Clive
     
  13. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,418
    Quite. As Clive says - it's the system that can't cope rather than you doing anything wrong (well you know this). My feeling is, though, that you would probably want to think carefully about writing anything on, or attaching an explanation to, the cheques. If you do that, it alerts them that there "might" be a problem, and I think that cheque is much more likely to wing it's way back to you, rather than just signing it without explanation. In the latter case, 9 times out of 10 they won't even notice, whereas with the former, I would think there was a 50/50 chance that it would be dealt with as if it hadn't been signed or something.
     
  14. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    10,856
    Wigan, Lancs
    Just catching up...

    Strictly speaking when signing as attorney you should write "John Frederick Smith* by his attorney" followed by your usual signature. Note you should write their full name.

    * or whatever the donor name happens to be!:D
     

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