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Power of Attorney

mandyp

Registered User
Oct 20, 2004
150
Glasgow
Dad was at a lawyers yesterday (finally!) to see about this.

I spoke to him last night, he's really upset about doing this and is losing sleep over it.....I've tried to point out that it's for the best in the long run. He feels that he's taking away yet more of Mum's 'rights'. I don't know what to say to make him feel better about it. Solicitor also advised that he should put something in place for himself (due to his eyesight and the possibility he could lose it). For Mum it'll cost £150 which he doesn't have and won't take from me. He'll be struggling to come up with that but will manage. This means that another weekend he was going to take Mum away on will have to be postponed. I wish he'd take the money from me. They look after my daughter after school and won't take money from me, this is the very least I can do.

I know he can do it himself, but he hates forms and wants to ensure it's done properly. It infuriates me that people that are known criminals can qualify for legal aid for yet another court appearance that the public have to pay for (I appreciate the need for legal aid however). You'd think there would be some sort of provision provided by the state to help people in these types of circumstances it seems so unfair.

Just a bit of a rant, letting off steam...worries, whatever!
 

Sally

Registered User
Mar 16, 2004
114
London
importance of the power of attorney!

Hello there,

what a shame your father feels like this. I don't suppose there would be any use pointing out to him that in fact everybody should have an enduring power of attorney (EPA) at the ready lest they get into a car crash for example, and lose their mental capacity that way?
It is not the law that you do this through a solicitor as you can buy the forms in WHSmiths or order them from the Public Guardianship Office (PGO) although the person that witnesses the signatures should be as independnt as possible.
Also, your father may never need to register the form therefore if he buys it and keeps hold of it it will cost him very little.

I hope this might help to allay his fears of cost and depriving your mother of her independence, he really is doing the right thing as the only other alternative in the future would be receivership which costs around £800 in the first year alone. With both EPA and receivership it is possible for the PGO to dismiss the fee if the person genuinely cannot pay for it.

Sally
x x x x
 

Brucie

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
12,413
near London
Hi Mandy

why don't you get a copy of the EPA form and look at it.

It isn't rocket science, and it is not absolutely necessary to have a solicitor involved.

If you go to http://www.guardianship.gov.uk/formsdocuments/forms.htm then it says:
Enduring Power of Attorney (EPA) - form to make an EPA

This section provides a copy of the prescribed form to make an EPA.

Important note: EPAs are very powerful documents and it is important that you fully understand the implications of giving authority to other people for managing your financial affairs. Our EPA booklet provides information about these documents and how they work. We strongly recommend you read this booklet before making an EPA. You can access a copy on the Publications page of this website.

You should also ensure that you read and fully understand the guidance in Part A of the prescribed form before making an EPA.

Please note that PGO staff are not legally qualified and therefore cannot provide legal advice on how to make an EPA. We recommend you obtain legal advice from a solicitor, a Legal Advice Centre, or the Law Society.
You can then download the form to look at it.

If you still think it is too complex then you can consider your options.
 

Lynne

Registered User
Jun 3, 2005
3,433
Suffolk,England
Mandy

Sally is right, POA (preferably Enduring Power of Attorney) does not have to be done by a solicitor. I went via that road with my Mum, but subsequently found that it's not that complicated to set up, and I could easily done a DIY job. However, I would prob. employ a shark (sorry, solicitor) when it comes to getting it activated, which is a separate stage. I think there's a factsheet on this site about it.

Best wishes
 

Sally

Registered User
Mar 16, 2004
114
London
registering the EPA

If you did want to do it minus shark (!) then call the EPA helpline on 0845 330 2963 and get them to send the EP1 and EP2 form (just forms to confirm you have informed the donor and close relatives of the impending registration) then send the whole lot off with the original EPA to the PGO who give 30 days to allow for any objections then stamp the form with their lovely legal stamp and bob is your uncle! It is quite straight forward but again if you can spare the dough, having a solicitor guiding you can make life less stressful.

Sal
x x x x
 

mandyp

Registered User
Oct 20, 2004
150
Glasgow
Sometime I did get all the forms for Dad, but he refuses to look at them, I'm not sure why he's insisting a solicitor (or shark!) does it for him especially in light of his current financial situation. To be honest I think this whole thing has made him quite irrational.

Trying to get him to do 'things' can be difficult so I try to let him do things his way, even if it doesn't appear to be the right way. Anything that I say is translated into me 'putting pressure on him' or 'sticking my nose in'. I don't think he sees my thinking as genuine concern for both him and Mum. This is why I wish he'd just let me pay for it, then the whole unpleasant business would be done and dusted, but that's me interfering again:(

He found the visit to the solicitor depressing and will no doubt find the visit to the psychiatrist even more depressing.

I spoke to Mum about it and she really isn't giving a stuff. I think there's no doubt that this is bothering him more than it is her. Just hope he does it. He was thinking about contacting one of these companies that take your house when you die and give you an income, so that he can treat her more (sorry, don't know what it's called!)

I thought this was probably a good idea and would hopefully prevent the government getting their mits on it should Mum ultimately go into care, also it would hopefully give them the cash to enjoy the time they have left without scrimping all the time. Has anyone else done this, or investigated it?
 

Sally

Registered User
Mar 16, 2004
114
London
releasing money

I think that this is called Equity Release and people are doing it more nowadays as they realise their houses are worth oodles and boodles.
 

Izzy

Volunteer Moderator
Aug 31, 2003
62,364
69
Dundee
Don't know if this is relevant but we were also advised to get a Welfare Power of Attorney as this relates to decisions as regards care.
Izzy
 

mandyp

Registered User
Oct 20, 2004
150
Glasgow
Thanks for that Norman, I'll check it out, have to admit I'm a little concerned as to how this works should Dad find one day that he has to move to something smaller!

It was Dad's 60th this weekend and him, myself, Mum, my Husband and daughter all went away for the weekend. It was great fun and brill to see Mum enjoy herself so much!
 

twink

Registered User
Oct 28, 2005
265
68
Cambridgeshire UK
Enduring Power of Attorney

Can I ask a question? I am terribly dim in these matters. We are in the throes of getting forms signed for the enduring power of attorney with the help of our lovely, helpful support worker. My step daughter and my son are acting as the other attorney's. My step daughter has rung me this morning with a question I don't know the answer to. We understand, sort of, that it means if I were to die before Steve, her father and my husband who has the AD, her and my son would act as attorney's but she said what if we owe lots of money on credit cards for instance, (we don't!!) are her, and my son, responsible for paying our debts? I know I'm not explaining this very well at all!!! We own our own house, the mortgage is paid off and we don't have any credit cards or owe anyone any money so do I just tell her this (as I did this morning) and make sure she is happy with that? 'in her own mind'?

Hopeyou all understand that!? Sorry!!! thank you for any replies.

Twink/Sue
 

Sally

Registered User
Mar 16, 2004
114
London
debt

Hi there,

having been someone's attorney does not mean that you personally have to pay off their debt, that would be illogical and unfair. When someone dies, their debt usually dies with them although I have heard rumours about partners being liable but I would be surprised if this was true.

Hope that helps,
Sally
x x x x
 

twink

Registered User
Oct 28, 2005
265
68
Cambridgeshire UK
Thank you so much for replying Nada and Sally!

I will tell Michelle what you've said and also give her the phone number. I thought it would me by own son asking the question but, it was Steve's daughter! You never can tell can you??? lol

Thank you again both.

Love Twink/Sue
 

Brucie

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
12,413
near London
When someone dies, their debt usually dies with them
... not necessarily so. When my Mum died, she owed a bit of money - not much - to Visa. She had no estate but Visa chased my brother for months trying to get him to pay the bill.

Eventually they gave up. I think the point is that their debt means that the creditors have first call on the estate before relatives.

Someone who actually knows about this can probably clarify. :confused:
 

Sally

Registered User
Mar 16, 2004
114
London
twue

true, but I assume they were chasing him as a near relative rather than because he was previously an attorney, which is what twink was asking I think.
 

twink

Registered User
Oct 28, 2005
265
68
Cambridgeshire UK
I'm not sure exactly WHAT Michelle meant, she was at work, on her mobile and it was breaking up! I think she was just making sure that we aren't in debt up to our eyeballs and she wouldn't be responsible for paying everyone off if we died!!!! lol. I told her what you said Sally and also sent her the helpline number from Nada. I don't get it at all because the other two kids are the executors of our wills, my eldest son and Steve's eldest daughter so I really don't understand who is responsible for what when we die now. She is supposed to be the brains of the family too!!!!!!

To change the subject a little, Steve seems 'different' this morning. He's in a lot of pain with his arthritis and his left hand is still very swollen so off we are going back to the surgery this afternoon. He's got Tramadol painkillers which don't appear to be working, it's been very swollen for almost 2 weeks now and that's not gone down at all. He is sleeping or rather dozing a lot through the day and evening and he keeps chatting away in his sleep and then asking me what I said, I say nothing and he says "you asked me a question didn't you" so I say no and usually he just laughs when I say you were just dreaming. When he's sleeping in the chair he's very twitchy, his hands, shoulders, legs are all on the go. His mouth is really terribly dry but that could be the amitryptile (sp?) he's on I will ask the GP today. He's got up this morning and for the first time not 'done his usual stuff', he didn't have cornflakes as he always does and he gets them himself and he made a cup of tea, drank half of it, thought he'd drunk it all and when I poured it away, the tea bag was still in the cup. He seems more confused than ever before today. Maybe the pain has something to do with that too. I had to laugh to myself, I was reading the side effects of the Tramadol he is taking for the pain in his swollen hand. Guess what a side effect is? Swollen hands!!!!!???????? Duh! I've sent for some Devils Claw to see if that will work, got to be better than all these tablets he keept getting.

Twink/Sue
 

Sally

Registered User
Mar 16, 2004
114
London
Devils Claw

Hi Twink/Sue,

my grandmother swears by Devil's Claw and she had terrible problems with her hands so give it a whirl. Hope that things go well at the GP, sounds like a tough day.

Sal
x xx x x x
 

twink

Registered User
Oct 28, 2005
265
68
Cambridgeshire UK
Hi Sal,

My support worker said to get it as it's great. MY support worker she says!! LOL. OUR support worker I should say probably!!!!! I don't know if it's all the medication making him be 'different' today or if it is the AD doing the usual thing, I have no idea how it goes. I sent off to Holland and Barratts for the Devils Claw so it should be here soon. The Tramadol isn't doing any good at all so I think I might just stop him taking those actually. As if the AD isn't bad enough, now he has this arthritis, well, he had that first. Even that's getting much worse. For the terrible pain he is in, I really can't see it doing any good. He had a metal plate put into his right hand/wrist so maybe they will operate on the left one as well but they did say they wouldn't make this one stiff too so he hasn't any movement in it. It never rains etc. lol

Sue x x