Hi, my mum wrote a joint power of attorney for me and my brother years ago, I know which solicitors it is with. My mum has lost capacity but is in denial. I need to evoke it but my brother refuses too, saying there is nothing wrong with her. He has all her accounts, money, savings totally under his control and I cannot have access to any of it. She has no idea what is going on. I don’t speak to my brother as he is rude, arrogant and just shouts at me. How can I evoke the power of attorney? I tried to get her assessed by her doctor but my brother cancelled the appointment. He gets notifications of all her appointments. Help!!
Power of attorney problem
- Thread starter Trudy 2410
- Start date
I would suggest you contact the solicitor involved and ask for a copy of the POA. If both you and your brother are named attorneys there should be no problem with this. I’m disturbed because it appears that your brother has been using his POA without your knowledge. If he believes there is nothing wrong with your mother, he has no right nor reason to evoke the LPA.
My sis and I have PoA 'joint and separately'. I felt queasy when we did it but I had to, knowing that there had to be a back up plan, if something happened to me.
I'm wondering if your brother has registered as LPA with the bank, given you say he's in denial. If he's controlling all her finances without the LPA, that sounds more like financial abuse.
But if the LPA docs are with the solicitor, go ahead and get them to certify them and then you can register with the bank. I presume the LPA is you and your brother acting 'joint and separately' so you won't have to agree to take action. At least you'll be able to log on and take a look at her finances at anytime.
Mum lost capacity quite a long time ago but we're now setting up LPA for Dad on different accounts too. You don't have to prove anything medically. The point is that when these documents were drawn up, they gave you the right to act on their behalf. With Dad we will talk him through his options, what we are doing, he will empower us to act on his behalf or he can do things himself.
I'm so sorry you have such a difficult relationship with your brother. It seems remarkably common. Not the world of 'happy families' that we're meant to inhabit. I still hope there might be a way of normalising your relationship, for the sake of your mother. Did something go wrong or was he always a nightmare?
I'm wondering if your brother has registered as LPA with the bank, given you say he's in denial. If he's controlling all her finances without the LPA, that sounds more like financial abuse.
But if the LPA docs are with the solicitor, go ahead and get them to certify them and then you can register with the bank. I presume the LPA is you and your brother acting 'joint and separately' so you won't have to agree to take action. At least you'll be able to log on and take a look at her finances at anytime.
Mum lost capacity quite a long time ago but we're now setting up LPA for Dad on different accounts too. You don't have to prove anything medically. The point is that when these documents were drawn up, they gave you the right to act on their behalf. With Dad we will talk him through his options, what we are doing, he will empower us to act on his behalf or he can do things himself.
I'm so sorry you have such a difficult relationship with your brother. It seems remarkably common. Not the world of 'happy families' that we're meant to inhabit. I still hope there might be a way of normalising your relationship, for the sake of your mother. Did something go wrong or was he always a nightmare?
@Trudy 2410 . So sorry to hear you have a strained relationship with your brother. I know what you're going through and how you must be feeling as my brother does the same thing to me. I can't advice you but getting certified copies of the LPAs (assuming your mum did one for health and one for finances) is definitely your first step. Good luck.
Thank you for your reply. I seem to be stumped because it is just a joint power of attorney not jointly and separately, so we both need to agree to evoke it. He won’t even reply to my emails. He’s always been a nightmare, he’s golden boy and highly favoured by my mother, she never listens to me and won’t accept he does anything wrong.
What your brother is doing, i.e. accessing/controlling her finances, but not using his PoA to do it is Not Legal!
As your PoA is joint (as opposed to joint and several) it effectively means all decisions on finance have to be signed off, i.e. agreed by both of you. This is what your mother set up. Of course, your brother knows that if he did register the PoA he'd have to allow you equal access so that's why he doesn't want to do it.
Is he helping himself to her money or is he likely to? As you are a named attorney there's nothing to stop you getting your copy (to which you are entitled!) from the solicitor (you might want to tell them what is going on and take their advice) and register it with the Office of the Public Guardian yourself. Then you could take it to the bank, explain about your brother and tell them you wish to protect your mum's money and that you have concerns over your brother having unofficial access and denying you your rights (and responsibilities!) as your mum's attorney.
As your PoA is joint (as opposed to joint and several) it effectively means all decisions on finance have to be signed off, i.e. agreed by both of you. This is what your mother set up. Of course, your brother knows that if he did register the PoA he'd have to allow you equal access so that's why he doesn't want to do it.
Is he helping himself to her money or is he likely to? As you are a named attorney there's nothing to stop you getting your copy (to which you are entitled!) from the solicitor (you might want to tell them what is going on and take their advice) and register it with the Office of the Public Guardian yourself. Then you could take it to the bank, explain about your brother and tell them you wish to protect your mum's money and that you have concerns over your brother having unofficial access and denying you your rights (and responsibilities!) as your mum's attorney.
Firstly, you need to make an appointment to visit that solicitor and find out whether your POA with your brother is "Joint" POA or "Joint and Several" POA. Most POAs which are shared are joint and several, meaning that either of you are able to make sensible and necessary decisions on your mother's behalf independently of each other. POA can be for 1) Finance and/or 2)Health and well being.(Actually both of these have a bearing upon one another). If it is simply joint POA this means that all decisions made on your mother's behalf must be discussed and agreed upon by the 2 POA holders. If the solicitor says you have the latter then your brother is already failing to do the right thing by cancelling your mother's appointment at the doctor's for example and also organising your mother's finances without consulting you. If it is joint and several your brother is making these decisions independently of you and as long as they are sensible and in your mother's best interests then that is fine.Sounds like maybe not though - a doctor's appointment should not be cancelled.If you sense your mother is not fine as he says then you first need to see that solicitor and get their advice about proceeding.
That is as far as the technicalities I know.As for the emotional toll of a nasty brother I can join you on that one. He also said I should leave my mother alone and there was nothing wrong with her. I stopped communicating with him because his nastiness hurt me so much.One year later my mother is in a care home which found for her and her house is sold.I emptied it, put it on the market and did the viewings. My brother, on the other hand, spends many months of the year either out of the country or away, on leisure breaks, not work.Don't get me started! |Believe in your gut reaction about things. See the solicitor yourself.Can you contact the GP yourself, maybe write down how your mother is and arrange to take your mother under some other guise which is a guise from both brother and mother - like routine health check for the elderly, blood pressure check? Good luck.
Thank you that is very helpful, I’ll go to the solicitors and see if I can do that.
Thank you for your reply and the advice. I will try to get to the solicitors again and see what I can do, they were not helpful last time. The problem I’ve got is my mum sides with my brother over everything and won’t believe me, even when he’s nasty to me in front of her she won’t say he’s in the wrong!
All I can say is that you have to have along hard think about what you believe is wrong and right here. I was rarely over, say the past 3 years or more in the same room with both brother and mother, and have had no face to face contact with him for two years and that was only very briefly.It must hurt to hear your mother siding with your brother especially when he is nasty to you. With my mother it was more a case of siding with what he said when he was with her and siding with what I said when she was with me.It was frustrating and confusing, but looking back, I know it was about her trying to please both people.Also, looking back, she was no longer making rational choices about things. My brother, who saw her much less often, saw her trying her best to prove she was coping well, whereas I was seeing it all.So she managed to convince him, or agree with him, that she didn't need a care worker in to dose the dangerous medications she was taking(often wrongly). My mother thought she was doing fine.She had dementia and couldn't see otherwise.My brother was supporting her and hindering what was needed. Also, I would say that my mother had a tendency to go with anything my brother said, maybe because of he was older than me and maybe also because she had great respect for authoritarian males.I was just "the baby". He had a lot of shout and in her own uncertain mind she responded to that. When I started believing in myself more, seeking advice(including from this forum) I began to do what I knew was the right thing to do...at which point, my brother at least, began to fade into the background. He could not argue with Mum's dementia diagnosis and he couldn't argue with the memory clinic's advice about instating some care calls.
Yours is, most likely, only similar in some respects to my story.However, you need to put aside, just for a while, the hurt your brother(and mother) is causing you and have a think about what she really needs.Is he meeting those needs for your mother, or not? Seek advice and be proactive in what you believe to be the right course of action. This will give you the confidence needed to make changes where changes are needed.
Thank you, it is somewhat similar to my experience. My mum doesn’t like women, she never has, she won’t see a lady doctor, dentist, solicitor etc. I’m a woman so she doesn’t listen to a word I say. My brother has always been golden boy and despite not being very bright and making poor financial decisions himself, she always takes his advice. She definitely has dementia it’s beyond doubt, but he won’t reply to my emails suggesting this, and that we should evoke the power of attorney. I will try contacting the solicitor again and see what I can do. Thank you 🙏
I hope this gets sorted out for you, I feel you are going to have to grab this situation by the horns and get as much information as you possibly can. Sounds a bit like your mum needs protecting from not only your brother but herself too. The advice from previous posters is way more useful than I can give you, I just wanted you to know you're not alone. I read your post because I have concerns about my dad and whether we are heading towards a dementia journey ourselves but I am very worried my brother will take advantage of him. I do have POA if anything did happen to my dad but my brother only sees him when he wants money and hes very manipulative. I stress about the grey area between dad still controlling his finances and me taking over. It seems as if, despite the difficulties, you still have your mums best interests at heart and you should be proud of yourself for that. Good luck.
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