POA and money issue after mum dies

Daisymay1

Registered User
Sep 14, 2023
32
0
I am so sorry if this sounds harsh but just wanted some advice.
Mam is now in a carehome and the council have taken control of the house to pay her fees until we get chance to sell it. She hasnt got a will and my brother and I have POA for her finances and I have a joint bank account with her. We have both cared for most of mams needs ( with carers) at home for the past 5 years, which was incredibly hard. My sister visited Mam once a month for 30 mins and did not contribute in any way to her care or needs.
Her house needs a fair bit doing to it before we put it up for sale, decorating, some plastering new kitchen and emptying ( she was a bit of a hoarder). We ( my brother and I) are happy to do a most of the work ourselves so we get the most for the house.
Firstly is that the right way to look at it, as once the bill uses up all of the house value wont the council have to just continue paying?
Also and this is the horrible bit....if mam dies and there is so e money left over from the house sale, will it have to be split 3 ways equally or is there away around this? I am not being tight, I want my sister to have her share but if my brother and i do all the manual work to the house to increase the value and she does nothing it doesnt sit right with me. Can we claim a payment for the work we do?
I am sorry this is so long 🙂
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
24,701
0
South coast
Hello @Daisymay1

I honestly wouldnt bother doing too much on your mums house. Clean it and empty it, yes, but dont do anything else re decorating etc. You are right - once the money from the house is gone the council will have to step in. There may be a way to claim back money you have spent upgrading the house, but I think it would be complex and IMO it would be better to just sell the house as seen.

With there being no will any money left after your mum dies will be divided according to laws of intestate and Im afraid there is no getting round that once your mum no longer has capacity to make one.
 

Bod

Registered User
Aug 30, 2013
1,947
0
Firstly the house, clear it out, leaving enough furniture (if it's good enough) to show the use of each room.
Sell it "as is" don't bother about redecoration, or repairs, there are plenty of people who will buy a "Doer upper"
True, you wont get Top dollar, but then you havent spent a load of money you won't get back.
If needs be put it to auction, sold at a price the LA cannot question, and it's gone at the fall of the gavel.

Secondly, Mother not having a Will, she will die Intestate, which means there are very strong rules (laws) as to who gets what. Check up on the Gov.uk website.
 

Elle3

Registered User
Jun 30, 2016
705
0
I agree with the others, regarding not doing anything to the house apart from some emptying, cleaning and setting the rooms with whatever furniture you have. I sold my dad's house, with a big hole in his kitchen roof, in need of a new kitchen, new bathroom, re-wiring, carpets, decorating etc etc. I asked the Estate Agents if it was worth me doing anything to the house first and they all said no, many buyers want to stamp their own mark on it, may not like what you do to the property and just rip it all out and do it to their taste anyway. I probably only lost about £20K in its value.
 

SAP

Registered User
Feb 18, 2017
1,115
0
As others have said, don’t do anything to the house other than a good clean and sell it as is. Chances are what ever you do to it will get spent on care fees so it seems a way of your time and emotional energy.
Again regarding the other point, if there is no will as other have said it will get split 3 ways following the laws outlined above.
 

jimkd

Registered User
Nov 28, 2023
27
0
I am so sorry if this sounds harsh but just wanted some advice.
Mam is now in a carehome and the council have taken control of the house to pay her fees until we get chance to sell it. She hasnt got a will and my brother and I have POA for her finances and I have a joint bank account with her. We have both cared for most of mams needs ( with carers) at home for the past 5 years, which was incredibly hard. My sister visited Mam once a month for 30 mins and did not contribute in any way to her care or needs.
Her house needs a fair bit doing to it before we put it up for sale, decorating, some plastering new kitchen and emptying ( she was a bit of a hoarder). We ( my brother and I) are happy to do a most of the work ourselves so we get the most for the house.
Firstly is that the right way to look at it, as once the bill uses up all of the house value wont the council have to just continue paying?
Also and this is the horrible bit....if mam dies and there is so e money left over from the house sale, will it have to be split 3 ways equally or is there away around this? I am not being tight, I want my sister to have her share but if my brother and i do all the manual work to the house to increase the value and she does nothing it doesnt sit right with me. Can we claim a payment for the work we do?
I am sorry this is so long 🙂
I'm not a lawyer but i think If you have a real joint bank account (rather than a PoA access) then any money remaining in a joint account goes to the surviving account owners before any will or probate takes affect. Check with the bank, in real life they might freeze a joint account to check what's what and whether outstanding debts against the account eg care debits need to be actioned.
 

Elle3

Registered User
Jun 30, 2016
705
0
Oh, I forgot to add, my dad and I had a joint savings account. When he died this did not get included in probate, although I declared it. The building society the saving account was with, once they had seen the death certificate just put the account in my sole name. I'm not sure though how a council financial assessment would view this, if it was looking at paying for care fees. Someone else may be able to answer that.
 

Daisymay1

Registered User
Sep 14, 2023
32
0
I'm not a lawyer but i think If you have a real joint bank account (rather than a PoA access) then any money remaining in a joint account goes to the surviving account owners before any will or probate takes affect. Check with the bank, in real life they might freeze a joint account to check what's what and whether outstanding debts against the account eg care debits need to be actioned.
 

Daisymay1

Registered User
Sep 14, 2023
32
0
Oh, I forgot to add, my dad and I had a joint savings account. When he died this did not get included in probate, although I declared it. The building society the saving account was with, once they had seen the death certificate just put the account in my sole name. I'm not sure though how a council financial assessment would view this, if it was looking at paying for care fees. Someone else may be able to answer that.
Hi thank you. I did wonder whether the joint account would make a difference. We are not trying to get away with anything, and i will pay any outstanding bills. This is after Mam passes so the carehome fees would stop anyway. I will ask at the bank regarding this.
 

Daisymay1

Registered User
Sep 14, 2023
32
0
I'm not a lawyer but i think If you have a real joint bank account (rather than a PoA access) then any money remaining in a joint account goes to the surviving account owners before any will or probate takes affect. Check with the bank, in real life they might freeze a joint account to check what's what and whether outstanding debts against the account eg care debits need to be actioned.
 

Daisymay1

Registered User
Sep 14, 2023
32
0
Thank you. I will ask at the bank. It sounds morbid but we have been shocked at how little we knew about Mams care etc that i think we are teying to be ready
 

CrazyBunny

New member
Jul 3, 2023
6
0
Hi. First of all, I am really sorry, as this sounds really harsh on you. I think that you need to be practical, so you are asking the right questions.

Here is a simple guide about what happens if there is no will ( the short answer is that it will be split between the children). It won't let me post a link, so just Google "citizen advice intestate."

I agree with everyone else that it is not normally worthwhile spending too much money to do up a property, as there is no guarantee that you will get that money back with a higher sale price. Even if you do achieve a higher sale value, that money will go to the council and you will not be any better off.
There is no simple way to claim money for the work that you do. Effectively, your mum would be employing you to do the work, so that money would be income and be subject to income tax on you.

The Joint Savings Account is more complicated (I am not an expert). The normal rule is that if one person dies, the savings become the legal property of the remaining person (it does not enter probate). However, it MAY become more complicated if the account was solely in your mother's name and then she added you to the account. The Council may argue that this is "depravation of assets" (purposely changing things so that the money will not be used for care fees).

Best of luck!
 
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Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
5,623
0
Midlands
When I spoke to a solicitor as I prepared my mothers probate she asked about the joint account.
Ownership of the residue funds were looked at in terms of who had contributed to them.Like Many, I has been added as a signatory, andin all honesty ,I hadnt ever actually contributed to it.
Thus,for the process of probate, it was deemed 100% hers
(and its wasnt a snooty old solicitor- I had a family friend who happened to be solictor look over my workings beforeI submitted them- she offered her expertise)
 

Bod

Registered User
Aug 30, 2013
1,947
0
When I spoke to a solicitor as I prepared my mothers probate she asked about the joint account.
Ownership of the residue funds were looked at in terms of who had contributed to them.Like Many, I has been added as a signatory, andin all honesty ,I hadnt ever actually contributed to it.
Thus,for the process of probate, it was deemed 100% hers
(and its wasnt a snooty old solicitor- I had a family friend who happened to be solictor look over my workings beforeI submitted them- she offered her expertise)
I think there is a difference between a true Joint account, where both parties have full use, and an account with 3rd party access.

Bod