POA - a very odd response

[stanleypj]

Posting here as it seems more likely I will get the sort of responses that I'm seeking.

Long story short: I was about to register my wife's (she's the donor) LPA when I spotted that the solicitor (who has already, by his own admission let us down in a number of ways) had given the wrong year when entering my wife's date of birth.

I was heartened to see that the guidance on filling in the LPA002 says: : ‘If the date of birth differs from the date stated on the LPA itself, please explain, if you are able, the difference in Part 12 of the form and provide a copy of the donor’s birth certificate as evidence.’

Obviously this must happen often enough for them to mention it and when they received the birth certificate they would have proof of the correct date of birth so I filled in Part 12 and sent off copy of birth certificate.

Their reply noted the date of birth was different on the LPA and the registration form LPA002. It stated that the date of birth on the LPA could not be altered. It told me that I could have the LPA but warned that banks etc might not accept it and that the Office of the Public Guardian would be unable to assist in that case (so helpful!).

But there was no mention of the birth certificate I sent. I phoned and spoke to someone and asked why the b.c. was requested. She had never heard of this, went away and checked with someone else and they hadn't either. I had to get her to read the relevant passage in the guidance (guidance updated April 2013). She was puzzled and could not help me further.

I wrote in about the issue. The responder also said she was '...at a loss as to why our guidance states a copy of a birth certificate should be supplied.' The situation was definitely as explained in the original letter. She is even going to make sure the guidance is changed! The bc copy was returned.

I was told I could complain and will do so.

Has anyone else come across this? Has anyone else had an LPA that was incorrect in some way? Has anyone else had difficulties with the OPG? Any other helpful comments are most welcome. I am not seeking legal advice here.

Many thanks

 

[jenniferpa]

Stanley, it's not exactly on point with your original question regarding confusion at the OPG and what you have to send them, but have you ever looked at the justice.gov page that gives summaries of orders handed down by the COP? http://www.justice.gov.uk/protectin...ty-act/orders-made-by-the-court-of-protection

They make quite interesting reading with regard to LPA/EPA that may not be in the correct form. Mind you, my favourite is the one where the Deputies ended up spending more than £200,000 of the donors money on gifts for themselves and their families which they then had to pay back.

I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't need to send a birth certificate though: it would seem a perfectly reasonable way to sort out what was the actual birth date.

 

[stanleypj]

Thanks Jennifer, I will have a look.

Your last para sums up my feeling exactly.

Another point is that they are apparently happy to 'sell' me something which they say may not be fit for purpose.

How could a bank, even a bank, refuse to accept it if it was authorised by the OPG? Are the banks concerned that there might be a woman with exactly the same names as my wife who was born on the same day and in the same month as her - but a year later???!!!

 

[jenniferpa]

I suppose it comes down to matching every single bit of info, including birth date. I don't know if the bank refused to accept it you would be able to claim the costs of a deputy application from the solicitor who made the error?

 

[winda]

Hi Stanley,

How annoying for you. I hope you get some satisfaction from your complaint.

I don't know if this helps but I found, when registering my husband's LPA with banks etc, that they were with one exception extremely sloppy. Many of them didn't really know what to do. Some of them didn't ask to see my ID (I had to offer it). I feel sure that they didn't check the details on the LPA.

So hopefully you won't have any problems. I hope that is the case for you if you aren't able to remedy the situation with the OPG.

 

[stanleypj]

Thanks winda, that's encouraging.

Jennifer, the solicitor has mentioned possibly paying for a deputyship if necessary but I doubt if he would be thinking about meeting the 'oncosts' involved.

 

[dotfoxleics]

You have a valid LPA since Form LPA002 allows you to register it with the discrepancy between the dates of birth.

As with all legal documents you can't go back and amend its details once it has been signed and the OPG has no statutory powers to do anything further when an error has been made on the original document. I agree that it would be helpful if the final documentation issued by the OPG incorporated the correct date of birth.

No doubt you will keep a copy of the Form LPA002 and will keep this for production to the Bank and others in case of any problems.

It's not really the fault of the OPG that the guidance notes in filling in the LPA weren't followed.

 

[stanleypj]

As with all legal documents you can't go back and amend its details once it has been signed and the OPG has no statutory powers to do anything further when an error has been made on the original document. I agree that it would be helpful if the final documentation issued by the OPG incorporated the correct date of birth.

An interesting view. Why do you think the suggestion in your last sentence cannot be followed by the OPG?

 

[dotfoxleics]

An interesting view. Why do you think the suggestion in your last sentence cannot be followed by the OPG?

It might encourage people not to take care in completing the LPA and counter the guidance recommending that that LPAs are registered with haste so that errors can get ironed out.

It would also add another piece of paper to the copious sheets of paper now issued.

I've got no idea.

 

[Nebiroth]

How could a bank, even a bank, refuse to accept it if it was authorised by the OPG? Are the banks concerned that there might be a woman with exactly the same names as my wife who was born on the same day and in the same month as her - but a year later???!!!

Yes, that is exactly the problem.

When a bank matches an identity it requires that all the "keys" fit correctly. One of the "keys" is date of birth.

The more "keys" they use the more likely it is that they are creating/matching a unique identity.

With a population of 60,000,000 people it is possible to have a match like the one you describe, though unlikely.

The banks utilise DOB as part of the unique identification of a customer, and it will caus eproblems if there is a mismatch.

 

[stanleypj]

With a population of 60,000,000 people it is possible to have a match like the one you describe, though unlikely.

I should have added 'living at the same address'. Unlikely? Not possible I would say, except perhaps in a parallel universe.