1. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi

    As you probably all know, Mum is in the assessment ward of the local hospital.

    To-day my Daughters visited, to give me a day off.

    When my daughters were leaving Mum was creating, crying and trying to follow them. My oldest daughter called on the help of staff.

    A staff member came and pushed my Mum into a chair, fortunately unhurt, then stood in front of the chair with her arms outstretched to stop Mum from getting up out of the chair.

    My Daughters were shocked that anyone could have pushed an old lady, never mind their Gran.

    In all the trauma of trying to leave they didn't complain or get the staff member's name.

    Should I complain? I expected better of trained psychiatrict staff than physical actions, what happened to distraction methods?

    The family are a bit upset to-night, thinking that Mum is being pushed around. But again I have to ask the question, will Mum be worse of if I complain, because we can't move her anywhere else at the moment.

    Any opinions would be gratefully received
    Alfjess
     
  2. connie

    connie Registered User

    Mar 7, 2004
    9,519
    Frinton-on-Sea
    Not sure what to think, let alone what to say.
    Originally posted by Alfjess:

    Perhaps, without complaining, you could ask senior staff what distraction methods they use, under normal circumstances. Then you would have something to work on.

    I am still sitting here quite puzzled.................but can understand that you are worried about making a formal complaint.
    However, your mum is vulnerable and it must have been distressing for her and your daughters.
     
  3. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,567
    Kent
    Oh dear Alfjess, I`m afraid I`ve been there.

    The person who handled my mother a bit too roughly wasn`t trained, she was an untrained care worker who didn`t last long. Are you sure the person your daughters complain of actually is trained.

    I didn`t complain, because I was so shocked at the time. I didn`t have the presence of mind to question the manner in which my mother was handled, but to this day I can see her face and feel it might not have been the first time.

    If no comment was made when it happened and your daughters do not know the name of the carer, I don`t think there`s much you can do about the incident, especially as your mother needs to stay at this home.

    But I would be aware and watchful. If there is any repetition, you will be prepared.

    Do not visit at the same time or on the same days. I made an unexpected visit and found my mother was being restrained.....she was strapped into a chair. The guilt on the face of the care worker who rushed to undo the strap, told me all I needed to know and then I made a formal complaint.

    My mother walked the corridors continuously and they wanted her to be still. That was the home`s way of ensuring she was where they could find her.

    I know how much it will weigh on your mind. I feel a wimp even suggesting you do nothing unless you can address it as it happens, but we do not know what may happen when we aren`t there.

    Just be prepared.

    Love xx
     
  4. Margarita

    Margarita Registered User

    Feb 17, 2006
    10,824
    london
    No complain , its the way to word it really , as in saying your not complaining , but you did not like the way one of the care workers push your mother into a chair , while your daughter was trying to leave last night is that normal practice.... giving them an open question . if they ask the carer name just say that in your daughter distress in seeing that happen she did not get her name, but if they is a next time and I hope they not your taking the person name

    as lest they no your on they case .
     
  5. elaineo2

    elaineo2 Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    945
    leigh lancashire
    Dear alfjess,i am glad your family witnessed this.You must put a complaint in,there are restrictions on all carers in residential and nursing care as to restraining,and i dont feel this was a case of needing restraint at all!.And in a N/H only the registered staff can restrain as they are liable for the shift.in a residential we cannot restrain at all.Sorry but i don't like the sound of this one and urge you to speak to the manager asap.I don't want to put the wind up you,but in my experience if they do that in front of family what do they do when your not there.Am really unhappy at this as i am sure you are ,given your post.please let us know what happens.staf fhave been sacked at my place for saying inappropriate things to residents.let us know what you decide to do.love elainex
     
  6. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi GrannieG

    My Mother isn't in a care home at the moment, she is in the psychiatrict assessment ward of the local hospital.

    Although my daughters didn't complain at the time, they described this person and I can identify her.

    One would hope that, in this specialist kind of ward in an NHS hospital that staff would be trained, but as you say we don't know what happens when we are not there and at the moment I can't move Mum until the assessment is carried out and I have been given the info on where next is suitable and able to cope with Mum.

    Do you think I should speak to Psycho-geriatric consultant or Mum's CPN?

    Hi Connie

    I am also puzzled about how a specially trained nurse? could treat an old ill person like this and am also angry.

    Thanks for your replies
    Alfjess
     
  7. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,439
    This is very distressing for all concerned. I think that Sylvia might be right - this person may not have been trained. It's a weekend, and if there are any untrained or undertrained staff around that's when you'll come across them. Also, I think it's very difficult to work out exactly which type of staff are which (it was a damn sight easier when uniforms were standardized). I think I would mention it to the ward manager - you wouldn't be making an accusation (after all you don't know who this person was) but you would be making the manager aware. I would also, if you think this might potentially be an ongoing problem, make it clear that you will be checking her for bruises and abrasions. I'm not saying that any bruise mean abuse - the elderly can bruise very easily. On the other hand any "laying on of hands" for whatever reason should be noted in their records.

    In this situation, a hospital assessment ward, I think there is less chance of them "taking it out" on your mother - there are too many people in and out, too many shift changes. I might act differently if this happened in a care home. Let's face it, no one should be pushing anyone, and they need to know that it was seen, noted and that it is unacceptable. There are some things that are done in these situations that are open to interpretation, but I don't think this is one of them.
     
  8. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Dear Alfjess, I'm so sorry. This is the last thing you need. At least you thought your mum was being cared for, and hoped she would be kept calm. This is not the way to do it.

    I can't advise you, I don't know what I'd do in the circumstances. I guess if I'd seen it myself, I'd kick up a fuss. But to complain about what your daughters saw, without having the name of the nurse (not that I'm doubting it, you understand), leaves a lot of wriggle-room.

    I guess see how you feel in the morning, go in and see your mum tomorrow, and go with your gut feeling, is all I can suggest.

    It's an awful situation, made so much worse if you can't trust them to care for your mum properly.

    Love and hugs,
     
  9. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,567
    Kent
    If you have a good relationship with your mother`s CPN, she is definitely the first person I`d go to. Her first loyalty is to your mother and not to the assessment unit.
     
  10. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    PS I've just read Jennifer's post, and it occurs to me that, being weekend, it might even be agency staff, some of whom couldn't care less how they treat the patients, so long as thay get through the shift.

    Perhaps you could ask about weekend staffing. If they do use agency nurses, they definitely need to know about this.
     
  11. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi

    Thanks for all your replies.

    Tomorrow I will see the staff nurse and flag it as a concern, without mentioning anyone, although from my daughter's description I recognise the person.
    I will make it clear that I will not have Mum physically forced in anyway.

    After her fall on Thursday, Mum has quite a lot of bruises, Jennifer. But after to-day's episode it makes me wonder did she fall or was she pushed.

    I also think if I get no satisfaction from the staff nurse, I will phone the Cpn asking her to ask the consultant to contact me

    Will let you know how I get on tomorrow

    Everyday a new problem

    Thanks again
    Alfjess
     
  12. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi Hazel

    Our posts crossed, but I will ask about weekend staffing

    Thanks
    Alfjess
     
  13. elaineo2

    elaineo2 Registered User

    Jul 6, 2007
    945
    leigh lancashire
    Thankyou Skye for the previous post.I don't agree that all agency staff are uncaring but i had an agency staff on my shift this morning.MY GOD? if it wasn't for the rules to have 4 carers to 10 residents she would have been on her way at 8.30am.Her moving and handling of client skills left alot to be desired and i told her twice about it before i "had her in the office" about it.Suffice it to say communication with the carer was hard.if you get my drift!I ended up asking her to change a resident that was soiled.Did it myself in the end.am not being "funny",but they get paid more than me and i'm the team leader!sorry if i sound predjudiced,i am not at all,but its hard for residents and residents often refuse their assistance,whatever their nationality!a strange face sometimes makes them feel intimidated.

    another rant sorry

    love elainex
     
  14. alfjess

    alfjess Registered User

    Jul 10, 2006
    1,213
    south lanarkshire
    Hi All

    I went to the hospital to-day and spoke to the nurse in charge.

    I said I wasn't making an official complaint, yet, but I was voicing a concern about the rough handling of Mum by a member of her staff and related what my daughter's had told me.

    The nurse in charge agreed and said that pushing etc. wasn't acceptable and shouldn't have happened and she would speak to the her staff.

    The member of staff involved was not agency staff, although I didn't get a clear answer if any agency staff were hired or not. I will pursue that question, bit by bit.

    I made it clear that the family were monitoring things and if anything else is suspictious I won't hesitate to complete a complaints procedure form and take it further if required.

    After all that, Mum was a lot calmer and more articulate than she has been in aprox a month

    Ah well every cloud as they say

    Love
    Alfjess
     
  15. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    69,567
    Kent
    Dear Alfjess,

    Well done. You obviously managed to handle the situation calmly, without ruffling feathers, and must feel much better for it.

    That your mother seems to be receiving beneficial treatment there is an additional `silver lining`.

    I hope you are over the worst.

    Love xx
     
  16. Skye

    Skye Registered User

    Aug 29, 2006
    17,000
    SW Scotland
    Well done, alfjess. I think it's important that they know we're on the ball.

    I'm glad your mum was calmer yesterday, let's hope she's settling.

    Love,
     

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