1. rubyblue3

    rubyblue3 New member

    Oct 11, 2019
    Hi there,
    This is my first post and wonder if anyone has been in a similar situation.
    My mother, 88, has been diagnosed with dementia recently and has lived with me and my husband for the last 17 years. The house is jointly owned with my mother. My children have now left home. i have a joint bank account with her to pay her bills, shopping and to get cash out for her.
    I have a sister who hardly sees her mother, only visits about twice a year and phones her infrequently. I have discovered that when my mum went to stay with her for a week in February, my sister organised a POA without my knowledge, although my mother says she cannot remember signing anything. My sister refuses to discuss it and wont tell me who witnessed it etc., though she did say no solicitors were involved and it has been registered with the OPG ,who wont give me any information regsrding witnesses etc.
    I would be grateful for advice from any members regarding my sisterhaving any rights to a joint account or does she need my permission. Thanks all
  2. Shedrech

    Shedrech Volunteer Moderator

    Dec 15, 2012
    hello @rubyblue3
    and welcome to DTP
    what a strange way of going about setting up LPA - you can check whether there is one in place, which you may have done
    and if you are in doubts as to your mother's capacity to sign the documents, you can make a challenge though you will need evidence

    your mum should have a copy of the documents … though, if a solicitor wasn't involved (one doesn't have to be) it may be that your sister has all the documentation … however, your mum has a right to such documents so can ask for them … might she write to her daughter and ask for them, keeping a copy of the letter

    strictly, if your mum has capacity to make her own decisions, the Attorney can only act with her permission and at her instigation, and must follow your mum's instructions … only when the donor is no longer considered to have capacity can the Attorney take over the management of the donor's affairs … and then the Attorney does not have any responsibility to disclose information to others, not even family members

    you might be wise to check with the bank where the joint account you have is, to ask who might be allowed access to it … though be careful not raise any question of your mum's capacity to manage her accounts as the bank may then freeze them … if your mum doesn't give her permission, or actively withholds it, an Attorney (as I understand it) has no right to any access or information
  3. Petunia59

    Petunia59 Registered User

    Oct 11, 2019
    My Mum set LPA in 2007. I was recently informed that it should now be registered with OPG. To do this, the solicitor needed to contact other possible interested parties, (Mum's next of kin after me and my brother), to ensure there were no objections to us registering. However, this may have been because of the number of years since the LPA was originally drawn up.
  4. rubyblue3

    rubyblue3 New member

    Oct 11, 2019
    The first I knew about it was when my mother received a letter from the OPG to say both LPAs (health & finance) were registered with them.
    Nobody, including my sister, informed me about this. I contacted the OPG who could not help me with my query due to Data Protection. i have asked my sister about it but she is very vague with her answers and to be brutal I feel betrayed by my mother and my sister who is quite happily waiting for ' her inheritance'. Maybe I will get my reward in heaven... I am also a carer for my 92 year old partially sighted mother in law. I feel that at times I spend my life spinning plates!!
  5. Bod

    Bod Registered User

    Aug 30, 2013
    Should you sister actually have POA, then surely mother should live with her. Or at least the sister should pay the going rate, for her care at your establishment....

  6. Dimpsy

    Dimpsy Registered User

    Sep 2, 2019
    Reading your story @rubyblue3 is like reliving what happened with my mum all over again.

    I don't want to go into the distressing details in public, suffice to say, mum's original attorney was revoked (and not a moment too soon, his behaviour was contemptible) and three replacement attorney's were installed. In this instance the OPG failed my mother miserably.

    Don't blame your mum, maybe, like my mum, she was in a situation where she was 'persuaded' that your sister was acting in her best interests.
    If everything about the LPA was above board, your sister's behaviour wouldn't be so shifty.
  7. Pete1

    Pete1 Registered User

    Jul 16, 2019
    Hi @rubyblue3, this sounds very suspicious. For your sister to have sole POA, even if your Mum was living independently, would be unusual if she is remote from Mum and you are close to hand - but as Mum is living with you and you are supporting her it makes absolutely no sense at all, and you should formally challenge it with the OPG and get it revoked. It might also be worth getting some paid legal advice from your solicitor. My sister and I had joint power of attorney and worked together to ensure Mum's best interests were served (albeit I did all of the 'heavy lifting' but with total transparency and agreement).
  8. northumbrian_k

    northumbrian_k Registered User

    Mar 2, 2017
    The key point to answer is whether your Mother is happy to have your sister as sole Attorney. If she is and had capacity to grant Power of Attorney in February then there ought to be no issue.

    If she isn't then, as Donor, she has the right to revoke the Lasting Powers of Attorney (LsPA). I did this when my wife who was an Attorney lost capacity herself and I didn't have faith that my other Attorney would handle my affairs properly.

    The Donor does need to have capacity in order to be able to revoke but it is a simple matter of making a 'deed of revocation' (this can be done at home) for each LPA and submitting these with the original validated copies to the Office of the Public Guardian. If your sister has the original validated documents your Mother should speak or write to her to demand them to be sent to her (I would advise against mentioning revocation at that point).

    Follow this link to the guidance:

  9. DesperateofDevon

    DesperateofDevon Registered User

    Jul 7, 2019
    please ring social services Adults access team on Monday. Explain to the what has happened & they will be able to advise & help you as this isn’t right & compromises you as your mums carer & also your mums wellbeing & wellfair.
    good luck & keep posting
  10. Dimpsy

    Dimpsy Registered User

    Sep 2, 2019
    Just to add to the guidance from @northumbrian_k, if your mum goes down the revocation route and your sister won't hand over the LPA document to her, don't worry, mum can still revoke and the OPG will demand that she return the LPA to them.

    As a matter of interest, you mention that you have a joint bank account with your mum - so who paid for the LPA? If your mum paid, you would have noticed from the bank statement. Did your sister pay?

    When my mum went through the process of appointing replacement attorney's, her solicitor insisted that the POA charges were paid from mum's bank account and not ours - we had our cheque book with us on the day, but forgot to take mums, so we had to return to the solicitor the next day with mum's cheque. It was to do with keeping everything in the open and clarity of the transfer process.

    My mum's first attorney would not return any paperwork - LPA, birth / marriage certificate, blue disabled parking badge etc. which is a good indicator of how he disregarded the serious undertaking of being an attorney. It didn't prevent him from helping himself to mum's pension money from her bank account without her knowledge (or approval) and we flew the flags when he was finally struck off the record.

    It's making my blood boil even now, two years on, to think how he abused his position and the OPG turned a blind eye.
    Mum's social worker played a huge part in him being removed swiftly; she could see the effect that his bullying had on mum and submitted a report to the OPG which we have always believed finally cooked his goose.
  11. DesperateofDevon

    DesperateofDevon Registered User

    Jul 7, 2019
    I believe in karma..... & breathe!
  12. Lawson58

    Lawson58 Registered User

    Shouldn't your mum have the original of the POA? I have the originals of our POAs and my attorneys have certified copies. If your mum doesn't have the original, red flags should be waving all over the place.
  13. Quizbunny

    Quizbunny Registered User

    Nov 20, 2011
    My mum has never had the original POA's, don't think they'd have lasted long if she had.
  14. Sarasa

    Sarasa Registered User

    Apr 13, 2018
    Having POA is a very sensible thing to have, but I would be very suspicious about your sister being so cagey about it. My brother and I went to the solicitors together to sort mum’s out and though I’m the one that does all the work (brother is very ill, but I was always the more hands on one) I run everything I do past him and his wife.
    Hope you can either get your sister to open up about it or get it revoked and start again.
  15. Lawson58

    Lawson58 Registered User

    My main thought was that if the mum didn't have the original of the POA perhaps the POA didn't really exist.
  16. Dimpsy

    Dimpsy Registered User

    Sep 2, 2019
    Sorry to sound so desperate @DesperateofDevon, this thread has really resonated with me and bought back a most distressing time that I thought was behind us.
    It took 18 months to extricate mum from the grasp of this ex-attorney (family member) and we still hold our breath at times; his reach is long. It's hard to believe the depths that people will sink to and when it's someone within the family, truly shocking.
    Social services have been wonderful in their protection of mum, they contacted the police on mum's behalf and advised us to keep the local police station phone number on speed dial in case he turns up out of the blue.
    I'm not a brave person and OH and I lived through the darkest and most frightening time of our lives, I wish I had known about this forum, being able to share what we were going through would have lightened the load.
  17. Rosserk

    Rosserk Registered User

    Jul 9, 2019
    The following link explains how your mother can revoke POA. You don’t need to go to the expense of a Solicitor it’s simple enough to do. My mother set up POA on the government website and chose not to inform my brother, which was her right, it is up to your mum who is informed she’s set up POA. The question to ask is why didn’t tell you? Was it because she didn’t know what she was doing? If she still has capacity she could set up an LPA on this site that makes you both joint attorneys, that way you have to agree.

  18. DesperateofDevon

    DesperateofDevon Registered User

    Jul 7, 2019
    no you don’t sound desperate, sad at how another person can be so I thoughtful -yes

    people are inherently selfish & in the low times of life / this can take your breath away at the callousness & cruelty of another.

    so I cling to some belief in karma or something like it- after all all religions amount to the same ethics
    Treat another as you would wish to be treated.

    I’m not a religious person, I find the selfishness & cruelty of the day to day world sometimes overwhelming. So keep to my belief that treating others as you would wish to be treated is a good ethic & life lesson. yes I am always disappointed when it’s not reciprocated & hurt; but I keep battling forward in the joe that others will & do respond the same.

    The hurt & distress is hard to bear with others callousness etc at times - but I try & look towards the good actions of others & have snipped down my interaction with those who are no longer a positive experience. Yes my social circle is almost non existent but I know when I do reach out that it’s a positive experience , a shared moment in life’s journey.

    I am always happy to listen & understand that each of us is different & reacts such to situations. the hurtful ness of another is a slow wound to heal
    Sending you love & a (((((hug)))))

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