My mothers care home have increased her fees to cover council funded shortfall
- Thread starter Takemewithyou
- Start date
Hi again,
I'm now advised by the Head of my Local Authority and my solicitor that my mothers care home are not allowed to make up their shortfall by raising her self-funding fees.
The care home head office are trying hard to not actually put it in plain English that this is what they are raising self-funders fees for.
A breakdown of this fee rise has been requested from the head office, and we are awaiting a response from that. It will be hard for the head office to avoid detailing where the fee rise will be going, and therefore we will have evidence in black and white of what they are charging for.
It was mentioned in the council meeting by the Leader that, supposing the council are able at some point to pay a little more towards their own funded residents again, would the care home then contact me and tell me that they are dropping my mothers fee down again, because the shortfall is no longer there? No.
I'd strongly advise anyone in this position, and who is unhappy about it, to challenge the fee rise by asking for a breakdown of the rise (in the first instance) and take it from there.
This increase to cover LA funding shortfall is not allowed and that's why the company are reluctant to put it in writing and in plain English for everyone to clearly understand.
I'm now advised by the Head of my Local Authority and my solicitor that my mothers care home are not allowed to make up their shortfall by raising her self-funding fees.
The care home head office are trying hard to not actually put it in plain English that this is what they are raising self-funders fees for.
A breakdown of this fee rise has been requested from the head office, and we are awaiting a response from that. It will be hard for the head office to avoid detailing where the fee rise will be going, and therefore we will have evidence in black and white of what they are charging for.
It was mentioned in the council meeting by the Leader that, supposing the council are able at some point to pay a little more towards their own funded residents again, would the care home then contact me and tell me that they are dropping my mothers fee down again, because the shortfall is no longer there? No.
I'd strongly advise anyone in this position, and who is unhappy about it, to challenge the fee rise by asking for a breakdown of the rise (in the first instance) and take it from there.
This increase to cover LA funding shortfall is not allowed and that's why the company are reluctant to put it in writing and in plain English for everyone to clearly understand.
Hi,
Just in case anyone is considering taking action regarding a similar matter to mine-
The Office of Fair Trading are also interested in why the care home HO are not willing to put down in black and white (and in plain English) why this fee rise has occurred and would require you to email them with your complaint (only if you've had a similar letter to mine-see earlier posts). You can email your complaint to : enquiries@oft.gsi.gov.uk and include as much information as possible in your email.
Just in case anyone is considering taking action regarding a similar matter to mine-
The Office of Fair Trading are also interested in why the care home HO are not willing to put down in black and white (and in plain English) why this fee rise has occurred and would require you to email them with your complaint (only if you've had a similar letter to mine-see earlier posts). You can email your complaint to : enquiries@oft.gsi.gov.uk and include as much information as possible in your email.
Interesting ... but do they say on what basis it's 'not allowed'? A contract with the LA? A contract with the self-funded resident? The law? Company policy? An ethical principle?
Well, quite. If something's 'not allowed' they'll find ways around it.
(It's a bit like the OFT and bank charges, with high overdraft fees subsidising free banking for in-credit customers. OFT lost the legal argument.)
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Ah, well, this is where it gets messy.
'not allowed' as in not allowed to raise the fee AND not be absolutely clear about the reasons for it, seems to be the issue here. The legality of the fee rise itself would be down to my solicitor (possible breach of contract), although this is yet to be determined.
Obviously I don't want to put everything down on the forum, as the care home HO could well be viewing this thread too. No point in enabling them to be too prepared.
OFT have asked for evidence of the original letter from care home HO and also the emails that I've exchanged with the care home MD.
The MD will still not put in writing exactly what this fee raise is for, and that's where the OFT have shown interest. The OFT have looked into care home contracts and their lack of clarity regarding fees before and have investigated something similar to my issue.
Their website is very informative.
I suppose that the more people who are prepared to have a bit of a fight on their hands, then the more successful we will all be at getting a fairer and more honest system in place.
My mother would have an almighty fit if she knew that she was now paying for someone else's care.
I think that if any prospective residents/relatives knew this little pearl of info would perhaps not choose this chain of care homes on this fact. It's both morally wrong and also being done in an underhand way. But of course, they wont be told that their relative will be subsidising someone else's care.
I certainly wouldn't have let my mother go into this home if I'd known this was going to happen.
I do also know of two care homes that aren't passing this cost on to their self-funders. My friend does their accounts and she can say with absolute confidence that they aren't doing it and are not planning on doing it.
Mind you, my mothers chain of homes are so big that I expect they can and will do whatever they like. On one email the MD suggested that I move my other out if I don't like the fee rise. How professional.
'not allowed' as in not allowed to raise the fee AND not be absolutely clear about the reasons for it, seems to be the issue here. The legality of the fee rise itself would be down to my solicitor (possible breach of contract), although this is yet to be determined.
Obviously I don't want to put everything down on the forum, as the care home HO could well be viewing this thread too. No point in enabling them to be too prepared.
OFT have asked for evidence of the original letter from care home HO and also the emails that I've exchanged with the care home MD.
The MD will still not put in writing exactly what this fee raise is for, and that's where the OFT have shown interest. The OFT have looked into care home contracts and their lack of clarity regarding fees before and have investigated something similar to my issue.
Their website is very informative.
I suppose that the more people who are prepared to have a bit of a fight on their hands, then the more successful we will all be at getting a fairer and more honest system in place.
My mother would have an almighty fit if she knew that she was now paying for someone else's care.
I think that if any prospective residents/relatives knew this little pearl of info would perhaps not choose this chain of care homes on this fact. It's both morally wrong and also being done in an underhand way. But of course, they wont be told that their relative will be subsidising someone else's care.
I certainly wouldn't have let my mother go into this home if I'd known this was going to happen.
I do also know of two care homes that aren't passing this cost on to their self-funders. My friend does their accounts and she can say with absolute confidence that they aren't doing it and are not planning on doing it.
Mind you, my mothers chain of homes are so big that I expect they can and will do whatever they like. On one email the MD suggested that I move my other out if I don't like the fee rise. How professional.
well said
couldnt of said it better
I'm sorry but if there is not enough money in the pot to care for the elderly, sick and disabled successive governments should not be sending billions in aid to countries who have their own space programmes and £50m a day to the European Union. They seem to find the money to pay for wars and supporting people who come to this country with no jobs. Sorry but it really makes be angry.when we keep being told that there is not enough money to support people in need here.
couldnt of said it better
Just a short update.
The OFT have got back to me and are saying that as yet, no one else in the country has made a complaint to them of this kind, they are unable to act on mine. This is because they don't investigate individual complaints. If more people do eventually get in touch with the OFT, then they may well take this up. In much the same way as the banking charges problem started as a slow trickle of complaints and it eventually became a barrage. They simply do not investigate single complaints.
The government are at the root of this situation, withdrawing funding from the councils for LA funded residents.
And yet, a fairly extravagant funeral is about to be held for a past PM.
The OFT have got back to me and are saying that as yet, no one else in the country has made a complaint to them of this kind, they are unable to act on mine. This is because they don't investigate individual complaints. If more people do eventually get in touch with the OFT, then they may well take this up. In much the same way as the banking charges problem started as a slow trickle of complaints and it eventually became a barrage. They simply do not investigate single complaints.
The government are at the root of this situation, withdrawing funding from the councils for LA funded residents.
And yet, a fairly extravagant funeral is about to be held for a past PM.
Is this a case of purse power the local authorities are able to force a lower rate as they hold most of the client basis. And it is a bit offensive to disregard the 3rd party top up we pay towards care for mum. She paid tax and saved all her life so her care is not free or paid by charity it is her right and one we fought for as she was no longer able to manage on her own, or with our considerable help.
But local authorities are spending our money they have a duty to the Council Tax payers to get value for money. Funding is a complex subject and very much one that is hidden in complex calculations that few understand. That is what should be addressed, carers need access to advice that is clear and beneficial with regard to future issues that may arise with assets.
But local authorities are spending our money they have a duty to the Council Tax payers to get value for money. Funding is a complex subject and very much one that is hidden in complex calculations that few understand. That is what should be addressed, carers need access to advice that is clear and beneficial with regard to future issues that may arise with assets.
Well said Fed UP.
Also, I think part of the reason that people haven't lodged any complaints is because they are unaware that the fee increase is to pay towards the LA shortfall.
I only heard it from the horses mouth by accident, (i'm sure the accounts woman shouldn't have told me). If you don't know about it you can hardly complain, can you?
The company have not made the fee rise clear because they know that there will be an almighty reaction. This is the point I made with my complaint to the OFT ,NOT that my mother is paying towards other residents, just that the company are not being clear about where relatives money is going.
Also, I think part of the reason that people haven't lodged any complaints is because they are unaware that the fee increase is to pay towards the LA shortfall.
I only heard it from the horses mouth by accident, (i'm sure the accounts woman shouldn't have told me). If you don't know about it you can hardly complain, can you?
The company have not made the fee rise clear because they know that there will be an almighty reaction. This is the point I made with my complaint to the OFT ,NOT that my mother is paying towards other residents, just that the company are not being clear about where relatives money is going.
At present my mum flits between a care home and her sheltered housing flat. The home she goes to is about 20 miles away. There is another home ran by the same chain much nearer but they charge top-up fees. Mum will be fully funded by the local Trust but the home fees are more. If I want mum to go there I must make up the shortfall. It's not a large amount so I was considering this. My rationale was what I paid the home i'd save on not having to cover petrol costs to the other home.
I discussed this with a few others who are already doing this and was strongly advised not to. This too seems to be another money making scheme. The relative in efect signs to say they agree to make up the shortfall between what ever the Local Trust pay and what the Care Home owners decide to charge. If you find yourself in a position where you can no longer pay you are forced to find a cheaper home and the ensuing annoyance and upset that will cause your loved one.
I think if more people contact the OFT to complain regards top-up fees like those referred to in earlier threads enough evidence will be collected to allow a class action to be made.
Isabella
I discussed this with a few others who are already doing this and was strongly advised not to. This too seems to be another money making scheme. The relative in efect signs to say they agree to make up the shortfall between what ever the Local Trust pay and what the Care Home owners decide to charge. If you find yourself in a position where you can no longer pay you are forced to find a cheaper home and the ensuing annoyance and upset that will cause your loved one.
I think if more people contact the OFT to complain regards top-up fees like those referred to in earlier threads enough evidence will be collected to allow a class action to be made.
Isabella
