Money worries

[Jixjax]

Hi I am my 87 year old mums main carer and I am really concerned as she keeps asking me to get her cash about £200 a week which i do as it is her money
The problem is by the next week it has gone, the only other visitor mum has is her grandson and I think she is giving it to him I know she does sometimes because I have asked him. But now I am beginning to suspect its at least £600 a month.
What do I do about this its a really awkward situation and I am not sure how to handle it but I feel he shouldn't be accepting this much money from her and this money should be kept for her care. I have been looking after her for 5 years this stage though has developed over the last 12 months
Any advice please I just don't know what to do

 

[Shedrech]

Hello @Jixjax
A warm welcome to DTP

I can understand your concern
It's one thing to say you want to honour your mum's wishes, another for her to be giving away such a large amount (unless she has a large income and savings)

I assume your mum has a diagnosis of dementia, and that she has no need of these regular amounts for herself ... do you believe she has the capacity to grasp what it means for her to be giving away or spending so much money ... If you think she doesn't, then find ways to stop giving these amounts eg fib/ love lie that 'oh darn, I was so rushed today I forgot' or the cashpoint was out of order, only paying out £20, the balance today was too low

Are LPAs in place? If you are her Attorney, you have the legal authority to manage her finances ... if not, then strictly no-one should be using her card to get cash, giving her PIN to anyone else breaks the banking agreement, so it's time to help her arrange LPAs

Can you be there when the grandson visits to see what is happening ... maybe a general discussion on the cost of living and care costs while he's around might let him realise know your mum cannot afford these amounts

Do also check around the house as it's not uncommon for people to get into the habit of getting money and hiding it 'to keep it safe' ... look in places you wouldn't expect, as well as obvious hidey holes

 

[Havemercy]

Yes - might be worth checking possible hiding places around the house. When Dad died we found over £2,000 which he had secreted under a mattress!

 

[Jixjax]

Hello @Jixjax
A warm welcome to DTP

I can understand your concern
It's one thing to say you want to honour your mum's wishes, another for her to be giving away such a large amount (unless she has a large income and savings)

I assume your mum has a diagnosis of dementia, and that she has no need of these regular amounts for herself ... do you believe she has the capacity to grasp what it means for her to be giving away or spending so much money ... If you think she doesn't, then find ways to stop giving these amounts eg fib/ love lie that 'oh darn, I was so rushed today I forgot' or the cashpoint was out of order, only paying out £20, the balance today was too low

Are LPAs in place? If you are her Attorney, you have the legal authority to manage her finances ... if not, then strictly no-one should be using her card to get cash, giving her PIN to anyone else breaks the banking agreement, so it's time to help her arrange LPAs

Can you be there when the grandson visits to see what is happening ... maybe a general discussion on the cost of living and care costs while he's around might let him realise know your mum cannot afford these amounts

Do also check around the house as it's not uncommon for people to get into the habit of getting money and hiding it 'to keep it safe' ... look in places you wouldn't expect, as well as obvious hidey holes

I have LPA but when she asks me for money i have to give it to her as she says its her money but over the last 12 months at least 6 thousand has gone. I am wandering whether to speak to my nephew and ask him if he can give any monies he receives from her back to me and explain it is needed for her future care he is thirty and I am so upset and feel he is really taking advantage. She has always given him pocket money but this is so much money. I don't want to cause upset but just don't know what I can do

 

[DreamsAreReal]

Any chance of you, or someone else, having a word with the Grandson? If Mum ever needs council help to pay for her care, they'll be investigating why and where hundreds of pounds are being spent every month, so you're being extra careful with Mum's money. Is what I'd tell him ?

He's taking advantage of an unwell old lady, by the sound of it. Not nice.

 

[Violet Jane]

Do you see your mother's bank statements? Is there any possibility of anyone else using her card to withdraw cash e.g. her grandson? What would happen if you refused to withdraw any money? Would she go and withdraw it herself or give her grandson her card and PIN? If her sense of time isn't too good you could try saying that you got some money out yesterday or whenever.

It might be worth speaking to her grandson but I suspect that he's just a bit of a 'taker' and appealing to his conscience wouldn't work.

I don't quite know how LPAs for property and financial affairs work. I think that you need to find out when you can effectively take over her accounts and exclude her from accessing them. I think that they can be drawn up in different ways.

 

[Jixjax]

Do you see your mother's bank statements? Is there any possibility of anyone else using her card to withdraw cash e.g. her grandson? What would happen if you refused to withdraw any money? Would she go and withdraw it herself or give her grandson her card and PIN? If her sense of time isn't too good you could try saying that you got some money out yesterday or whenever.

It might be worth speaking to her grandson but I suspect that he's just a bit of a 'taker' and appealing to his conscience wouldn't work.

I don't quite know how LPAs for property and financial affairs work. I think that you need to find out when you can effectively take over her accounts and exclude her from accessing them. I think that they can be drawn up in different ways.

I have her only card and am in charge of giving her money she has alzhiemers but is still aware , she says its her money and gets aggressive if I ask her where its going
She us my mum and I still feel as though she is in charge it Really is a difficult situation

 

[Jixjax]

Her grandson is good in many ways and I love him as he is my nephew but I think when he calls she just gives him money and he says no but she insists. But her money is going down do fast. I am wandering about having a conversation with him and asking him to give it back to me, just not sure where I would stand on this

 

[Jessbow]

I think I would just forget to get it out

 

[Banjomansmate]

You have to accept that you have Power of Attorney and are in charge of your Mum’s finances, looking after them for her long term benefit.
As @Shedrech has suggested you will have to play crafty and limit the amount of money you let her have each week, finding any excuse you can think of not to give her such a large amount even if she gets cross with you.
If necessary tell your nephew your Mum’s finances can no longer carry such an amount disappearing every week and that if she Insists on giving money to him each week then he must return it to you as she no longer has the mental capacity to know what she is doing and you could get into serious trouble if the authorities found out.

 

[Jixjax]

You have to accept that you have Power of Attorney and are in charge of your Mum’s finances, looking after them for her long term benefit.
As @Shedrech has suggested you will have to play crafty and limit the amount of money you let her have each week, finding any excuse you can think of not to give her such a large amount even if she gets cross with you.
If necessary tell your nephew your Mum’s finances can no longer carry such an amount disappearing every week and that if she Insists on giving money to him each week then he must return it to you as she no longer has the mental capacity to know what she is doing and you could get into serious trouble if the authorities found out.

Thank you I think thats what I will do
How would I get into trouble with the authorities is this another thing to worry about?

 

[Shedrech]

Hi @Jixjax
Please don't worry ... sadly your mum, as with any adult, has been able to make possibly unwise decisions ,... though I do think it's time for you to take over now

should your mum need the Local Authority to contribute to her care, the LA will carry out a financial assessment and if they find that large sums of money have gone could look into whether there has been 'deliberate deprivation of assets' to avoid paying care fees ... in circumstances where the LA consider this to have happened they can ask for the funds to be returned or only contribute by calculating as though the sum were still available, in which case family might need to contribute ... however, this isn't what's happening ... though maybe her grandson needs to be warned about this to make him see the seriousness of what he's a party to... the sum you mention is not 'pocket money' and a grown man shouldn't be accepting such sums imo, it has to stop

I wonder whether your mum really realises how much she is giving and how often, thinking it's £20 or some other amount she gave him as a boy for birthdays etc ... my dad gave a family member thousands, mistaking extra 00s, because he gave them some holiday money every year ... I was appalled when I found out, couldn't believe the person would take it ... made me understand why he'd tried to pay towards my holidays when wed gone away together and sneakily paid for petrol and meals out instead because I insisted I pay my own way

Paying for dementia care in England

Dementia care isn't free, and you may need to pay for some of the care you or someone you know needs. We help you understand the different ways to pay for care, and the amount you might be expected to pay.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

 

[try again]

I have lpa for my mum. I certainly would not keep giving her cash as it could open up questions about where all this cash is going .
I insist that any gifts over about £50 are given in cheque form so that there is an audit trail.
It may be here money, but you are responsible for managing it correctly

 

[Banjomansmate]

Thank you I think thats what I will do
How would I get into trouble with the authorities is this another thing to worry about?

Sorry, I didn’t mean to put the wind up you but for you to use that as pressure on the nephew, although yes, as @Shedrech explained, the LA would query large sums of money “disappearing “ if LA funding was needed at a later date!

 

[Jixjax]

Thank you so much for all your replies.
I have had a sleepless night worrying myself sick over this. My mum insists its her money and gets really aggressive about it. She is still quite with it in some ways, she know who everyone is and remembers a lot of things, but this is really worrying me, she will be self funding her care but what will happen if her money runs out?

 

[Banjomansmate]

That is when you apply to the LA for an assessment of her physical needs/capacity and if they agree her needs mean she requires residential care or support in her home but doesn’t have the finances to support it they will do a financial assessment and top up any funding as necessary.

 

[Jessbow]

That is when you apply to the LA for an assessment of her physical needs/capacity and if they agree her needs mean she requires residential care or support in her home but doesn’t have the finances to support it they will do a financial assessment and top up any funding as necessary.

They will top up, but that is where the finacial assessment will happen, and assess what she has now,compared to what she had for sometime previous. If she has been seen to give way a lot of money, she is then deemed to have deprived herself of that assett. The local authority cant just pay for care for everyone f they chose to give their money away.

Clearly yor Mum wont understand that- so grab the reins NOW. At least then you can say , as her POA, that you put a stop to it /did what you could as soon as it became evident.Talk to your nephew- get him on the right side.

 

[Jixjax]

They will top up, but that is where the finacial assessment will happen, and assess what she has now,compared to what she had for sometime previous. If she has been seen to give way a lot of money, she is then deemed to have deprived herself of that assett. The local authority cant just pay for care for everyone f they chose to give their money away.

Clearly yor Mum wont understand that- so grab the reins NOW. At least then you can say , as her POA, that you put a stop to it /did what you could as soon as it became evident.Talk to your nephew- get him on the right side.

Thanks I will do that. I did speak to social services they said as she is self funding she doesn't need a financial assessment

 

[Jessbow]

Thanks I will do that. I did speak to social services they said as she is self funding she doesn't need a financial assessment

No,she doesnt attthe moment- if she lives any length of time, her funds wont last forever. Then she will

 

[Bod]

Monopoly money?
Would that be recognised for what it is, or be accepted as currency?
Grandson could have a pay-rise, that wouldn't cost any body anything, provided he kept it in circulation back to you, to hand to mother......

Bod