1. Spiro

    Spiro Registered User

    Mar 11, 2012
    522
    Is there a guide to LA tariffs available online? I've tried looking, but can't find anything.
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,418
    No, not as far as I'm aware (I assume you are talking about how much a specific LA will pay for a person who they feel needs residential care but doesn't have specific extra needs).

    Most care homes know the LA rate though, and you should be able to obtain it from the LA.
     
  3. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,663
    Salford
    I tried looking once when someone asked a similar question, some councils have it on their website, someone else phoned the council and asked and was told, another was told the information was "commercially sensitive". I think if you have a dig around for the council concerned you'll find out from somewhere.
    K
     
  4. Spiro

    Spiro Registered User

    Mar 11, 2012
    522
    I'm trying to work out if there is a different rate for nursing care. In particular, if someone does have specific extra needs but doesn't qualify for CHC, is there any leeway regarding rates?

    I'm guessing that the rate is set at the start of the financial year, but it might be a case of a postcode lottery.
     
  5. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,046
    Staffs
    Apologies if this is a "sucking eggs" moment but if someone is deemed not sick enough for CHC they may be entitled to what is sometimes known as an FNC payment. This currently stands at £112/week and is payable direct to a NH from the NHS to help pay for the Nurse.
    http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/what-is-nhs-funded-nursing-care.aspx

    As for the LA rate that certainly is a postcode lottery. :( My LA rate is £410/week although they do have a higher rate of £428 for EMI. I have just moved my Mom to a neighbouring LA where they pay £460/week.
     
  6. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,046
    Staffs
    Would it be against the house rules to start such a thread?
     
  7. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    If you put your postcode in the BBC calculator it gives the average tariff for the council covering that postcode. Nottinghamshire also puts all the figures on their website. They have a higher tariff for a home which meets their 'dementia quality Mark' standard for either a residential or nursing home, and also a higher rate for homes based on their own quality assessment.

    Surely those who are more secretive will have to give the figure from 2016 when the care cap calculations start, otherwise how will people know when they reach the £72,000 figure?


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30990913
     
  8. Pete R

    Pete R Registered User

    Jul 26, 2014
    2,046
    Staffs
    It is a useful tool :)but the figures used are not that "local" (in my case anyway) where they seem to use a "West Midland" rate of £487 which is vastly different to the Staffordshire rates I posted above.:(
     
  9. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    Wonder if that reflects the level of information that different LA's already publish? As I said, Notts seems to be very 'open' anyway, so the calculator gives me a specific figure for the LA I'm in.
     
  10. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,287
    Male
    North Manchester
    "I'm trying to work out if there is a different rate for nursing care. In particular, if someone does have specific extra needs but doesn't qualify for CHC, is there any leeway regarding rates?"

    In my area there are different rates.
    Note that the LA standard charge is more than their rates.
    Self funding rates are around 1.5 to 2 times the LA rates.
    Things are now changing as by next April all residents in care homes will have had to have their individual needs assessed so that an appropriate charge can be set against their annual (hotel costs) and lifetime (care costs) caps. All homes will have to assessed by the LA and estimates made for both types of cost. These estimates should take local conditions into account and include a fair margin of profit.
     

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  11. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    Note that the LA standard charge is more than their rates.


    Could that be because if the LA are contributing the resident will contribute most of their state pension which would make up a lot of the difference?
     
  12. Saffie

    Saffie Registered User

    Mar 26, 2011
    22,490
    Female
    Near Southampton
    Surely the LA rate given includes the resident's contribution too.


    Sent from my iPod touch using Talking Point
     
  13. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    Honestly don't know as I have no direct experience of the assessment process; just an idea which is why I phrased it as a question. If I was in this LA area and the maximum tariff for a resident who is eligible for full LA funding is less than the weekly rate for an LA-run home I would certainly be asking where the extra money is supposed to come from!
     
  14. Saffie

    Saffie Registered User

    Mar 26, 2011
    22,490
    Female
    Near Southampton
    #14 Saffie, May 7, 2015
    Last edited: May 7, 2015
    It may alter in the future, but I'm pretty sure that when my husband was no longer self-funding and the LA became involved, the rate was stated and then they paid the balance after my husband's contributions of state and occupational pensions were paid.
    I have the annual invoices here.
    The nursing element was paid by the NHS directly to the home as has been said.
    My husband paid more than half the full stated LA rate.
    Where a resident only has a state pension to contribute, the LA will obviously pay a greater proportion of the rate.

    There will always be somewhere that will accept the LA rate as they have to fulfill the needs of the resident so the home that will do this for the least cost, will be chosen, as now, unless a topup payment is made.

    p.s. I'm concerned that, from Nitram's example, people will be dependent upon the LA's judgement regarding classifying a home - or will this be based on CQC assessment as it once was? The trouble is that they don't always get it right!
     
  15. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,482
    Radcliffe on Trent
    So it is possible that a privately-run home may charge less per week than a LA-run home and therefore the LA contribution would be enough to cover the full fee when added to to the resident's contribution?
     
  16. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    18,287
    Male
    North Manchester
    The standard charge is what self funders would have to pay, I don't know what happens with others.

    It's all a bit academic though. I think all the LA homes are either closed or short stay/respite only so the charge is usually £71.96/day quite often self funded or paid from reablement.
     
  17. Saffie

    Saffie Registered User

    Mar 26, 2011
    22,490
    Female
    Near Southampton
    They are not all closed down here. My husband was in an LA run nursing home as it was my favourite amongst the other 14 I visited and I was aware that once his savings were exhausted, funding top-ups would be unsustainable in the long run from my own.
    As I've mentioned before, these top-ups were in many cases more than double the LA rate. Even top-ups of £300 per week meant sharing a room in private homes whereas my husband had a lovely large room with an ensuite. True, he never used this personally but it was very convenient for personal care.

    Many of the residents were self-funders as was my husband for some time. There are a number of other LA run nursing homes in this county as well as care homes though some of these are being replaced by extra-care accomodation. It was a lovely home and being accountable meant that the nursing care was above reproach and any hiccup was quickly sorted by the LA.
    I only hope they remain in LA hands and do not get sold of to any of the big companies.
     
  18. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,418
    I think nitram was referring to his own LA homes when he said they had closed.

    Can I also clarify? When a "level of funding" amount is given that will be the amount the LA would pay which would be offset by any income the resident may have. It's not plus the resident's income.
     
  19. Saffie

    Saffie Registered User

    Mar 26, 2011
    22,490
    Female
    Near Southampton
    Isn't that what I've said Jennifer? I thought it was but perhaps it reads differently!
    If so, I'm sorry.

    .

     
  20. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,418
    Yes it was, but my clarification was really directed towards Pickle. I should perhaps have made that clearer.
     

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