Is this discrimination

[Chizz]

Dear AS,

According to an article in the Money section of my Sunday Times today, there were 6.85 million powers of attorney registered as at the end of 2022/2023 according to the Office of the Public Guardian. Whilst these registered PoAs relate to persons who no longer have mental capacity to deal with their own affairs, I appreciate that only a small proportion of these will relate to persons with some form of dementia, but nevertheless quite a number. About 1 million people have a form of dementia, but not all will have granted a PoA.

Thus, there are these PoA donors who are relying on family, friends, or professionals to manage their money and savings, and who are obliged to try and do their best for the donors on investments.

Yet, the article reports that, amongst other investments, four out of the five best (meaning highest interest) one year fixed bonds from banks or savings platforms that do not allow accounts to be opened by someone acting as attorney. Thus, at present an attorney cannot achieve the best possible return for the PoA donor.

I also appreciate that for a bank or savings platform company to operate accounts and investments by an attorney creates extra work in, amongst other matters, checking identity, checking authority, record keeping, staff training, etc.. Where a PoA is registered because the donor lacks mental capacity, then I would regard such donor as "disabled".

Is not the refusal to allow access to the best interest returning accounts/bonds/investments by a disabled person, where they are acting by their attorney under a registered PoA, a form of discrimination by such banks or savings platforms, that is against the current legislation?

If AS agrees that this is a form of discrimination, then would AS be prepared to lobby on behalf of such PoA donors who suffer from dementia, the banking institutes or associations, and the Financial Ombudsman to get matters rectified and end this illegal discrimination practice. If it means the banks or savings companies have to incur expense in changing their practices, computer programmes, training etc, then so they should, as they or anybody else should not be allowed to flount the law.

I await to hear further.

 

[Banjomansmate]

As far as I remember, 20+ years ago my brother in law had to apply to the Court of Protection to run his mother’s affairs, which, of course, included recording every penny he spent. When she died I am sure he said that there was more money left in her estate (father in law had died a year or two earlier) because it had been invested in higher paying accounts that the Court had ?run or organised?
Have other Deputies come across this or have things changed in the ensuing years?

 

[Louise7]

the article reports that, amongst other investments, four out of the five best (meaning highest interest) one year fixed bonds from banks or savings platforms that do not allow accounts to be opened by someone acting as attorney. Thus, at present an attorney cannot achieve the best possible return for the PoA donor.

The problem with newspaper articles is that they don't always include enough context or information to support the statements made, so it's difficult to form a balanced opinion about what is written. It's not clear whether the article goes into more detail which might support a case of discrimination, but a lot of the best interest rates available at the moment tend to be offered by banks that are registered abroad and/or offer only app or internet based banking platforms which keep their costs down.

I think a more pressing problem is the number of high street bank branches being closed down, with more reliance on internet banking, which will cause a lot of difficulties for many, including those with disabilities and the elderly. Although some banks do offer the facility to 'upload' documents such as LPA, proof of ID etc on-line I'm finding that the reality is that it's often difficult to do so, even when documents are very small, so I've had to go into a branch some distance away to physically show documents to them as the local branch is now a pizza restaurant

 

[maggie6445]

Some high interest paying accounts are higher risk investments or have limited access . Some may need regular tracking so investments are moved as rates change.
Whilst higher interest may be in the pwd interest on the surface it may be riskier.
Easy access for care fees need to be built into the equation, Also the tax position on interest.
Managing a donors money isn't always straightforward.

 

[nitram]

there were 6.85 million powers of attorney registered as at the end of 2022/2023 according to the Office of the Public Guardian. Whilst these registered PoAs relate to persons who no longer have mental capacity to deal with their own affairs,

I query the usefulness of the 6.85 million statistic and that it relates to persons who have lost capacity.

OPG recommendation is to register LPA immediately after signing, this means errors can be corrected whilst donor has capacity and avoids registration delay when donor has lost capacity.

The number of active LPAs will be considerably less, together with my 3 children I can account for 6 registered and inactive powers.

Also I suspect that many attorneys do not inform the OPG of the death of a donor which should be done even if the LPA was inactive.

 

[northumbrian_k]

This sounds to me more like business decisions rather than direct discrimination. Any financial body is at liberty to accept or reject applications and may do so for a variety of reasons. Not being able to access higher rate accounts is not the same as not doing the "best possible" (as opposed to "best in theory"). I would guess that an institution's terms and conditions would show that it is neither discrimination nor illegal.

 

[sdmhred]

My sense of justice gets annoyed by this. Mum had been sent an email offering such an account and then we found she couldn’t get it…..as is the same for folk with basic ban accounts ( my bread and butter work clients).

The problems registering POA’s shows that this group of people are not considered of business importance. Have the banks realised that in a few years many many more older folk (including no doubt some v rich customers!) will be managed by POA’s??? I doubt it.

There is inherent discrimination for anyone with a mental health issue. Try opening a bank account if you don’t have a passport or driving licence…it is near impossible and yet the government insists benefits are paid into bank accounts 😬😬Second class citizens all the way. I would be interested in seeing a legal challenge….You couldn’t ban an account for someone who needed a ramp to access a bank so why a third party???

 

[Chizz]

It's possible that a person opens an account or an investment with one of these banks or savings providers. Then, they lose capacity and their LPoA attorney wants to deal with their money.
I suppose that as the bank or savings providers won't allow an attorney to open an account, they probably close that customer's account.