Independence in tmunity/Direct payment's scheme BOREING

[lesmisralbles]

Hi All
Help needed please.
I and Ron want direct payment's because --
We want to choose the help Ron need's.
Ron want's to choose what is best for him.
We both do not want respite or shorterm breaks'.

The direct payment you can receive depend's on --
Your assessment. This will be written into a care plan. The hour's of support you need will be converted into a cash sum. This will be your direct payment.

Your direct payment may only be used to meet your assessed need's (what does that mean) ?

Ron would like to go for a swim. Ron would like a sauna. Ron would like to talk to a Lithuanian, (kid you not, his mum was Lithuanian). And most of all, Ron would like to be heard
Ron does not want anyone to talk to him like he is an idiot
Hello luv (in a loud voice) said the nurse, Ron replyed, I am not deaf


Our SW contacted us in January this year. Bloody Teapot
We have seen him twice.
This is now July.
No contact, I have alway's had to ring him.
I just want what Ron need's. What do we do ?
I have complained.
I have phoned.
I have been NICE
I have been ANGRY
Waste of bloody time.
As I have said before we will have to go it alone.
BUT, why should we. We have both worked all our life. 100 plus year's between to two of us. Paid full tax and insurance, what for?
Red tape.
Barb & Ron XX

 

[christine_batch]

Dear Barb & Ron,
When Peter received Direct Payment, he was able to tell us what he wanted to do.

It was all written into his plan.
Days out with Carer and did they have some good days out.
Cream teas, visit to Woburn Stately Home, Bletchley Park, Aircraft museaum, country walks, taking photos for his memory book, gardening, even DIY.

It can be provided but it is the different areas who are so hard to get them to take their fingers out.

If Peter did not feel up to going out, they would sit and watch DVD, listen to music.

Peter was always treated with respect, dignity, giving him
independence . NO wonder the Carer loved coming here.

I just wish you all the best with your quest,

Love to you both
Christine xxx

 

[lesmisralbles]

Dear Christine

Please explain to me about direct payment's
PM me if you want to
With no help from my Teapot, it is difficult
Barb XX

 

[christine_batch]

Dear Barb & Ron,
Will go through my paperwork and find the information for you.

Love to you both
Christine

 

[Lynne]

Barb

Can't help with any info about payments, but here's something for your teapot.

 

[lesmisralbles]

Oh Lynne

You will be seeing that one again
Whip **** YA HOO Barb XX

Dear AZ
Excuse me this is a message from Mrs Angry
Do they have to use this this sort of talk

Dear Mrs Angry
In a word YES We find on AZ it help's to let our member's express themselves,after all this is what the AZ forum is all about.
Barb XX JOKE JOKE

 

[Sandy]

Barb,

I just found this link to a document written in something like plain english about direct payments. It is a PDF file, so you will need Adobe Acrobat to open it.

It is a biggish file so may take a few minutes to download:

http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_083561?IdcService=GET_FILE&dID=161919&Rendition=Web

The key seems to be getting a needs assessment that reflects the types of activities that you mentioned - like someone to take Ron swimming.

Your direct payment may only be used to meet your assessed need's (what does that mean) ?

I think this means that if the council assessed someone as needing 5 hours of help with dressing and personal care and direct payments were made for that need, it would be breaking the rules to spend the money on something else - such as trips to the cinema.

If the original needs changed and trips to the cinema seemed to be more important, that change would have to be agreed and documented in a new needs assessment.

I suppose this is the Catch 22 as far as the notion of independence goes. People are given the money to arrange things for themselves, but those things have to still fall within the needs defined by a council assessment.

Take care,

Sandy

 

[gigi]

Hello Barb,

Not prying..but have you had a financial assessment from Social Services?

Sadly..if you and Ron have too much money my understanding is that you will get very little help.

I would like respite...and we are not wealthy..

But I have to organise this myself..and pay for the care.

I really do not understand direct payments.....

Love gigi xx

 

[Skye]

I was going to have a go at this, then discovered there's a factsheet:

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/factsheet/473

In a nutshell, if the SW assesses you as needing help with some aspect of care, they will normally supply this help, usually through an agency. Depending on your financial status, you may have to pay for this. The advantage is, they are dealing with the agency, so you don't have that hassle.

If you don't have savings, and are assessed as needing help, you can apply to get the money to buy in the services yourself. It will be the amount of money SS would have spent on providing the service.

The advantage is, you can use the money to pay a friend or member of the family (provided they don't actually live in the same house). The disadvantage is, you have to have back-up in case the person is ill, or goes on holiday.

You can use the money to employ an agency, but I can't really see an advantage to this, they're going to charge you more than they would charge SS.

You also have to keep detailed accounts to explain exactly what you have spent the money on.


Hope this helps. If I've got anything wrong, or missed anything out, please feel free to correct.

 

[gigi]

Thanks Hazel,

That's much clearer..

I never thought to look for an AS fact sheet...

But it's as I thought..we would not qualify for any of this.

Love gigi xx

 

[Sandy]

Thanks Hazel,

That was a much simpler summary.

The bit of the factsheet that I found worrying was the section under Consent:

There are issues about consent and direct payments. A person must consent to receive direct payments, or must have given consent at a time when they had capacity to do so. If a person has a registered enduring power of attorney (EPA), their attorney cannot give consent to receive direct payments on their behalf; if the person's needs change, the attorney will not be able to consent to direct payments for the new services. The person with dementia must have given consent themselves previously.

For this reason and after discussion with the Department of Health, the Society recommends that all EPAs include a direction stating that the person with dementia would like to have the option of direct payments to assist with their care and support at home instead of services, if this is deemed to be in their best interests. The DH has stated that it does want people with dementia to benefit from direct payments.

How many people would even think/know about direct payments when making a power of attorney?

Take care,

Sandy

 

[Skye]

That's an interesting point, Sandy. It's an excuse some LAs use to deny direct payments. I know Grommit was turned down for this reason, I'm not sure if he's been successful since.

What srikes me as very strange is that I've never heard of anyone in our area getting direct payments in the case of dementia, but SS ran a big campaign a few years ago to persuade the parents of mentally and physically handicapped children to accept DPs, because they couldn't find childminders.

Perhaps it's just that parents can make decisions for their children? Surely the partner of someone with dementia should have the same right.

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/talkingpoint/discuss/showthread.php?t=8878

 

[Tender Face]

If a person has a registered enduring power of attorney (EPA), their attorney cannot give consent to receive direct payments on their behalf; if the person's needs change, the attorney will not be able to consent to direct payments for the new services. The person with dementia must have given consent themselves previously.

Sandy, this petrifies me.... I am wondering what Registered EPAs allow anyone to do - surely this is financial and therefore an EPA should cover it? (Realise it's not your quote or thinking nor for you to answer!!!!! )

Chances are people have drawn up POAs and EPAs prior to Direct Payments being introduced? Is this something else that LPA has taken over? If so, there are an awful lot of us with defunct registered or even unregistered EPAs probably not worth the paper they are written on .......

Then again, anything around issues of consent does not surprise me anymore .... I wonder at times if the Mental Capacity Act ever got ratified?

Sorry, Barb and Ron, not much earthly help to you, other than to say I am in equal despair at 'the system' (or the several systems we seem to have to co-ordinate which I thought was the whole point of tea-pots in the first place?)

Love, Karen, x

 

[lesmisralbles]

Thank you all folk's, it was all as clear as mud

Are we all confused ?
If I approaches SS they would supply Ron with some day care, and me with some respite.
BUT, Ron and I want to arrange what we consider the help Ron need's. Not what SS can offer.
Teapot is nowhere to be found. On Monday I am contacting his manager and asking for another SW.
And off we go again. It is now seven month's, and no help from anyone.
No wonder so many give up.
Barb & Ron XX

 

[Sandy]

Hi Barb,

OK, how about this? Social services is repsonsible for carrying out a commuity care assessment for Ron and a carer's assessment for you.

There is an Alzheimer's Society fact sheet on that assessment process: http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/factsheet/418

The assessment should build up a picture of what people need and that should be translated into a care plan.

The care plan should describe what services can be put in place to meet the needs described.

BUT, Ron and I want to arrange what we consider the help Ron need's. Not what SS can offer

The whole point of direct payments is that they allow you to access services beyond social services limited range, BUT you have to get social services to assess the needs in a way that will allow you to do something more creative like getting someone to take Ron swimming.

It may be that there is a way of comparing the benefits of accompanied swimming to those of day care - and showing that the swimming is as good, or better, for Ron's needs. That might be an obvious comparison for you, but a social worker might need a more detailed explanation.

This sounds difficult but it should be easy. Perhaps a new social worker will help.

Have you ever considered contacting your local Alzheimer's Society branch to see if they can provide someone to help you through this process? They might have someone who could help you make your case in a way that the social workers would grasp.

Take care,

Sandy

 

[Sandy]

Direct Payments and Consent

Hi Hazel and Karen,

This is a confusing/frustrating situation. I suspect some social workers don't know all the ins and outs of it themselves.

Trawling around the Internet, I found this interesting page on the "Health and Social Care Change Agent Team"'s website:

http://www.changeagentteam.org.uk/index.cfm?pid=421

This is actually a much more humane explanation of the situation. I liked this paragraph in particular:

Informed consent implies that people are able to understand the options and have an understanding of what those options may mean for them. However, this does not mean that everyone must fully understand the ins and outs of the financial arrangements; nor every detail in how support is managed and delivered. Therefore, consent should not overly focus on the details of the management, administration and finance requirements, but rather on the difference a Direct Payment can make to the person's life. This should be a natural extension of the assessment of the person's needs.

Take care,

Sandy

 

[Margarita]

Your direct payment may only be used to meet your assessed need's (what does that mean) ?

Ron would like to go for a swim. Ron would like a sauna. Ron would like to talk to a Lithuanian, (kid you not, his mum was Lithuanian). And most of all, Ron would like to be heard

Like Sandy said

I think this means that if the council assessed someone as needing 5 hours of help with dressing and personal care and direct payments were made for that need, it would be breaking the rules to spend the money on something else - such as trips to the cinema.

The money that they give you for direct payment can pay someone to take Ron for a swim. a sauna , cinema But your going to have to pay the expense of paying for the person who taking Ron for those activities also On top of also paying Ron fees to get in .

Ron would like to talk to a Lithuanian

You mean a Lithuanian person

You could advertise in your local newsagent for a Lithuanian speaking person, Or ask social worker if s/he know of an agency that have Lithuanian speaking carers, that you can Employ for a few hours or more every week out of the money of direct payments, that could also take Ron out on all the activities he like doing , as long as you Ron pay for the carer expenses .

So direct payment is also helping you in your caring role , as it give you time out while the carer take Ron out . If you don't want time out for yourself . You can go with Ron & the carer on the activities, carer would just be they helping you to help Ron .

You can use direct payment to pay Lithuanian speaking carer . IE in the morning every day 1 hour a day to help you wash change, wash Ron . So thats 1 hour 7 days a week . Then depending on how much hours they allocate Ron .

You could choice IE 4 hours, 3 days a week Mon, Wed, Fir , to take Ron to any activities he like doing he likes . Or in one of those days Just sit with him have a good talk in Lithuanian another day also help you clean tidy the house.

 

[lesmisralbles]

I love you lot

Thank's.
Had the assessment, had all of what you have mentioned. Filled in ALL the form's. And I mean ALL the form's.
Getting no where FAST
It is all Bo---c-s.
What the bloody hell do we have to do to be heard
I am at a loss (SAD)

Barb XX

 

[Skye]

What the bloody hell do we have to do to be heard

Sadly, CONFORM! The system doesn't allow for any deviation from the norm. It doesn't appear to have occurred to anyone that there is no 'norm' in dementia.

I'm guessing you'd find conforming difficult, Barb?

Love,

 

[lesmisralbles]

I have never conformed in my life, I do not intend to start now

Hazel
Never
Barb X
PS, Rules are meant to be broken