• All threads and posts regarding Coronavirus COVID-19 can now be found in our new area specifically for Coronavirus COVID-19 discussion.

    You can directly access this area >here<.

In-home carers not allowed to lift patient after fall?

ppm

Registered User
Jun 10, 2014
52
My 93-year-old Mum is no longer able to cope with my 88-year-old Dad, who has advanced Alzheimer's. He no longer knows where he is, nor does he recognise anyone (including my Mum). He needs help with every aspect of day-to-day life (dressing, washing, eating, toilet, etc), and in the last couple of weeks has become alot less stable on his feet - he never uses his zimmer frame, and has fallen 3 times in the last week, requiring my Mum to phone an ambulance as she cannot lift him.
Mum finally admits that, because she cannot pick him up when he falls, she can no longer take care of him by herself. Her strong preference would be for a live-in carer, partly so that she can continue to provide some care and support for him, and partly because she thinks she will be lost and lonely without Dad to occupy her. The care agency that we use for bathing Dad has told me that any live-in carer would not be allowed to lift Dad if he fell, which effectively renders the idea a non-starter.
Is the only option a care home, which Mum is desperately hoping to avoid?
 

Bunpoots

Volunteer Host
Apr 1, 2016
4,066
Nottinghamshire
Hello @ppm when my dad was having regular falls his carers were not allowed to lift him off the floor either. I think this is standard. The carers in the care home weren’t allowed to lift him either, they too had to wait for an ambulance. Have you spoken to an OT to see what, if anything, can be put in place to help prevent falls?

I know it’s very frustrating as my dad wouldn’t use his Zimmer frame either but I did have a little more luck with a wheeled walker as long as I was there to put it in front of him otherwise he ignored it.
 

TNJJ

Registered User
May 7, 2019
1,205
cornwall
My 93-year-old Mum is no longer able to cope with my 88-year-old Dad, who has advanced Alzheimer's. He no longer knows where he is, nor does he recognise anyone (including my Mum). He needs help with every aspect of day-to-day life (dressing, washing, eating, toilet, etc), and in the last couple of weeks has become alot less stable on his feet - he never uses his zimmer frame, and has fallen 3 times in the last week, requiring my Mum to phone an ambulance as she cannot lift him.
Mum finally admits that, because she cannot pick him up when he falls, she can no longer take care of him by herself. Her strong preference would be for a live-in carer, partly so that she can continue to provide some care and support for him, and partly because she thinks she will be lost and lonely without Dad to occupy her. The care agency that we use for bathing Dad has told me that any live-in carer would not be allowed to lift Dad if he fell, which effectively renders the idea a non-starter.
Is the only option a care home, which Mum is desperately hoping to avoid?
By law no carers are allowed to lift anyone. Health and Safety.
My dad has a gutter frame which is used for mobility after strokes.

If he is refusing to use his Zimmer frame then the options are limited.

What about trying respite for your dad first? I know your mum doesn’t want him to go into a home but it sounds like your dad needs a lot of care.
 

ppm

Registered User
Jun 10, 2014
52
Good grief I had no idea that care homes wouldn't be able to lift him either. Does the same apply to nursing homes?
Unfortunately my Dad doesn't even recognise the zimmer frame as an aid - he just ignores it or pushes it to one side, and he is not able to understand or remember instructions to use it.
 

Bunpoots

Volunteer Host
Apr 1, 2016
4,066
Nottinghamshire
My dad did the same to the zimmer @ppm but I think he used the wheeled walker as it was like pushing a trolley and he understood that. But he would walk off without it unless I put it in front of him. He thought he was fine..
 

TNJJ

Registered User
May 7, 2019
1,205
cornwall
Good grief I had no idea that care homes wouldn't be able to lift him either. Does the same apply to nursing homes?
Unfortunately my Dad doesn't even recognise the zimmer frame as an aid - he just ignores it or pushes it to one side, and he is not able to understand or remember instructions to use it.
Yes it applies to all homes in the UK.
Homes have lots of equipment. They can use hoists to lift people of the floor but he would have to be assessed for this. Some people can get really frightened of this.

They will help him to get him off the floor if he can assist himself using furniture etc.
But if he cannot understand instructions that would be difficult.
 

Sirena

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
2,137
It would be worth trying a live-in carer. It could be that a carer would be able to prevent some of the falls, by being there to guide and assist him in a way you're mother isn't able to.

When my mother was recovering after a broken hip she was quite unsteady on her feet (and she refused any walking aids) so her care home always had an alert mat under her if she was sitting or lying down - when she got up they knew immediately and could go to assist. Use of alert mats plus a professional carer at home may prevent some of the falls, with an ambulance called when necessary, and since that is what would happen in a CH you may as give it a try at home.
 

ppm

Registered User
Jun 10, 2014
52
One of the medics who attended to my father the last time he fell told me that live-in carers would not usually provide overnight assistance (e.g. if Dad went wandering and fell during the night, which he does on a regular basis), as they have designated "downtime" for obvious reasons. That also seemed like a tricky obstacle to overcome.
We're very keen to explore the live-in options but it's important for us to understand the limitations that might apply!
 

Wifenotcarer

Registered User
Mar 11, 2018
275
Central Scotland
When my DH was having regular falls, mainly sliding gently out of bed, I was advised to call the FIRE BRIGADE to lift him back up! I never did, as I am pretty strong and always managed to get him upended, even when he was stuck in the bath, when I got him up and out in stages by lifting him a few inches at a time and stuffing towels under his bum ;).
However since I broke my arm, I can no longer even get him out of a chair. Thank goodness he is settled into his Care Home.
 

Leeds

Registered User
Sep 20, 2015
160
Hello @ppm when my dad was having regular falls his carers were not allowed to lift him off the floor either. I think this is standard. The carers in the care home weren’t allowed to lift him either, they too had to wait for an ambulance. Have you spoken to an OT to see what, if anything, can be put in place to help prevent falls?

I know it’s very frustrating as my dad wouldn’t use his Zimmer frame either but I did have a little more luck with a wheeled walker as long as I was there to put it in front of him otherwise he ignored it.
Hi, dad had a fall at his care home and they got him back into bed. Paramedics came on another issue and I mentioned about the falls. They told me, that any good care home would have a hoist to lift someone after a fall. It was not acceptable to leave someone on the floor for potentially hours, as it is not an emergency. They were very critical of care staff phoning for an ambulance to pick up a resident.
 

Bunpoots

Volunteer Host
Apr 1, 2016
4,066
Nottinghamshire
My dad fell out of bed at his care home @Leeds and the carers got him up but they directed and assisted him. If he’d been unable to take direction or help himself they couldn’t have lifted him.

My mum was terrified of hoists. They were used for transfer from bed to wheelchair. I’m not sure they’d have managed to get her off the floor with one.
 

Lawson58

Registered User
Aug 1, 2014
2,073
Victoria, Australia
I think the idea of a live in carer is a very good one mainly because at her age your mum needs lots,of help too.
It doesn't matter if they can't lift your dad. He may have injuries that require correct lifting anyway and no carer should be doing that on their own.

I think you need to be looking at this from the point that these two very elderly BOTH need help. I can't imagine how your mum is continuing to do what she is doing at her age.

She is self funding and doesn't want your dad to go into care. What's there to think about? It's a no brainer, isn't it?
 

Jessbow

Registered User
Mar 1, 2013
2,989
West Hertfordshire
Problem is, you dont know if someone has injured themselves falling- bones break so easily and you can do so much damage by picking someone up without evaluating their potential damage properly.
 

Bunpoots

Volunteer Host
Apr 1, 2016
4,066
Nottinghamshire
I think the idea of a live in carer is a very good one mainly because at her age your mum needs lots,of help too.
It doesn't matter if they can't lift your dad. He may have injuries that require correct lifting anyway and no carer should be doing that on their own.

I think you need to be looking at this from the point that these two very elderly BOTH need help. I can't imagine how your mum is continuing to do what she is doing at her age.

She is self funding and doesn't want your dad to go into care. What's there to think about? It's a no brainer, isn't it?
I agree with this.

I used an inflatable pouffe with an electric pump to get my dad off the floor after he fell. I'd put the uninflated pouffe under his bum (he had to lift his bum off the floor) and then get him to sit up. He'd hold onto his Zimmer and I'd stand behind him and inflate the pouffe. He couldn't fall back as I was supporting him and once the pouffe was inflated he could stand himself up using the Zimmer.
Obviously this wouldn't work for someone who was injured or unable to take instruction.
 

ppm

Registered User
Jun 10, 2014
52
I think the idea of a live in carer is a very good one mainly because at her age your mum needs lots,of help too.
It doesn't matter if they can't lift your dad. He may have injuries that require correct lifting anyway and no carer should be doing that on their own.

I think you need to be looking at this from the point that these two very elderly BOTH need help. I can't imagine how your mum is continuing to do what she is doing at her age.

She is self funding and doesn't want your dad to go into care. What's there to think about? It's a no brainer, isn't it?
Yes I agree that the live-in carer would be an ideal way to provide help for both Mum and Dad. The problem is that, from a safety point of view, I can see a risk of my Dad repeatedly falling and left lying for hours until an ambulance arrives to help him. Since he has fallen 4-5 times in the last week I can't see how that can work.
Our current care agency has simply said that their carers would not be permitted to lift him, regardless of the aids and methods available to them, and my Mum would obviously be of no help.
It's such a tough decision.
 

Lawson58

Registered User
Aug 1, 2014
2,073
Victoria, Australia
Yes I agree that the live-in carer would be an ideal way to provide help for both Mum and Dad. The problem is that, from a safety point of view, I can see a risk of my Dad repeatedly falling and left lying for hours until an ambulance arrives to help him. Since he has fallen 4-5 times in the last week I can't see how that can work.
Our current care agency has simply said that their carers would not be permitted to lift him, regardless of the aids and methods available to them, and my Mum would obviously be of no help.
It's such a tough decision.
If you don't have a live in carer, your dad is going to be left lying for hours until an ambulance arrives anyway so that's not really a valid reason for not getting a carer. However, in that situation your mother would not be left alone trying to cope with such stress on her own if she has a carer in the house.

I don't think that you should be dismissing the idea of a live in carer on that basis alone. You have two very elderly people trying to stay in their own home when they obviously require help and that should be the bigger issue.

As she is self funding, perhaps you should concede to her wishes. I wouldn't like to be her age, caring for your dad. Would you?

How reassuring would it be for your mum to know that there is help around when she needs it.
 

cuppatea

Registered User
Oct 28, 2016
417
South Wales
Morning, gosh what a worry for you. Those frequent falls are certainly very alarming. It seems to me that you've got nothing to lose by contacting one or two care agencies in your area and they will advise you what they can and cannot do, and if they need other equipment. You can then try one and see how it goes. If it doesn't work out you will then know that is not an option. Good luck and keep us posted.
 

TNJJ

Registered User
May 7, 2019
1,205
cornwall
Yes I agree that the live-in carer would be an ideal way to provide help for both Mum and Dad. The problem is that, from a safety point of view, I can see a risk of my Dad repeatedly falling and left lying for hours until an ambulance arrives to help him. Since he has fallen 4-5 times in the last week I can't see how that can work.
Our current care agency has simply said that their carers would not be permitted to lift him, regardless of the aids and methods available to them, and my Mum would obviously be of no help.
It's such a tough decision.
If someone falls into the floor and you need a hoist to get someone up. That requires 2people..
 

Spamar

Registered User
Oct 5, 2013
7,067
Suffolk
You don’t necessarily need a hoist, though you still need two people. An inflatable lift and a slide sheet works well, though to be fair, a hoist is better in my opinion.
I live in a reasonably remote location, and have never had to wait very long for a paramedic visit, either several years ago when my OH was having TIAs, or now when I’ve been ill.