How long do i let mum go without food or drink?

[CatLady Sue]

Hi, i've been around here for a little while but this is the first time i've posted. My mum is 82 and has been diagnosed with dementia but has never had any investigation into which type. My dad is her primary carer and they live in their own home about 20 mins from me. Dad is really struggling to cope now and seems to ageing before my eyes. Mum has no short term memory at all and hasn't had for about 3 years. As is typical, she doesn't recognise her condition and refuses to discuss it. A couple of weeks ago i was determined to arrange a care needs assessment by their local authority but mum would not hear of it and said she wouldn't speak to anybody that came out to talk about it. My dad has always thought he could manage but even now that he admits that he can't he is unwilling to go against her wishes and get support. I am an only child and sort of feel like i need to be the adult here and force the issue but it is so against my nature to do that and do i even have the right? My mum has always been very dominant and dad & i are easy going enough for there not to have been many confrontations although i haven't always had the best relationship with her. She once severed contact with me for about 10 years and my fear is that if i rock the boat that could happen again and dad totally depends on me for emotional support.

I did recently write to their Doctor explaining exactly how things are. (When mum is asked she says everything's fine and they don't need any help, she always answers questions with old facts that she doesn't realise are no longer true. Health professionals always take this at face value and then leave - Dad doesn't often correct her). Dad has since been asked to make an appointment for himself and i'm hoping it's as a result of the letter and i will attend with him (without mum).

The reason i am writing now is that over the last couple of days mums condition has worsened dramatically. Today is the 3rd day that she hasn't eaten at all (so far) and has barely been awake. The first night she soiled the bed, dad said that because of her back & hip pain she couldn't get up and out of the bed in time for the loo. When i arrived there yesterday i could see she wasn't herself and called a Dr out suspecting UTI. Dr confirmed this was likely and gave a script for 10ml of Cephalexin liquid to be taken 3 times a day (or preferably at least twice). Dad got some into her last night but hasn't yet been able to today She was able to get out of bed for the Dr and walk a couple of steps so it seems it wasn't solely mobility issues preventing her from getting to the loo in time & she managed it last night.

I told dad today that if she continues to refuse to eat/wake up enough to eat she would have to be admitted to hospital and he agreed. This is my immediate concern but when is this point reached, how long do i leave it? Whether it is a UTI or just the new normal the antibiotics aren't going to fix anything if we can't get them in her.

I'm sorry for the long post, one of the reasons i haven't written before is that there just seems so much to explain!

 

[Princess t]

Hi, i've been around here for a little while but this is the first time i've posted. My mum is 82 and has been diagnosed with dementia but has never had any investigation into which type. My dad is her primary carer and they live in their own home about 20 mins from me. Dad is really struggling to cope now and seems to ageing before my eyes. Mum has no short term memory at all and hasn't had for about 3 years. As is typical, she doesn't recognise her condition and refuses to discuss it. A couple of weeks ago i was determined to arrange a care needs assessment by their local authority but mum would not hear of it and said she wouldn't speak to anybody that came out to talk about it. My dad has always thought he could manage but even now that he admits that he can't he is unwilling to go against her wishes and get support. I am an only child and sort of feel like i need to be the adult here and force the issue but it is so against my nature to do that and do i even have the right? My mum has always been very dominant and dad & i are easy going enough for there not to have been many confrontations although i haven't always had the best relationship with her. She once severed contact with me for about 10 years and my fear is that if i rock the boat that could happen again and dad totally depends on me for emotional support.

I did recently write to their Doctor explaining exactly how things are. (When mum is asked she says everything's fine and they don't need any help, she always answers questions with old facts that she doesn't realise are no longer true. Health professionals always take this at face value and then leave - Dad doesn't often correct her). Dad has since been asked to make an appointment for himself and i'm hoping it's as a result of the letter and i will attend with him (without mum).

The reason i am writing now is that over the last couple of days mums condition has worsened dramatically. Today is the 3rd day that she hasn't eaten at all (so far) and has barely been awake. The first night she soiled the bed, dad said that because of her back & hip pain she couldn't get up and out of the bed in time for the loo. When i arrived there yesterday i could see she wasn't herself and called a Dr out suspecting UTI. Dr confirmed this was likely and gave a script for 10ml of Cephalexin liquid to be taken 3 times a day (or preferably at least twice). Dad got some into her last night but hasn't yet been able to today She was able to get out of bed for the Dr and walk a couple of steps so it seems it wasn't solely mobility issues preventing her from getting to the loo in time & she managed it last night.

I told dad today that if she continues to refuse to eat/wake up enough to eat she would have to be admitted to hospital and he agreed. This is my immediate concern but when is this point reached, how long do i leave it? Whether it is a UTI or just the new normal the antibiotics aren't going to fix anything if we can't get them in her.

I'm sorry for the long post, one of the reasons i haven't written before is that there just seems so much to explain!

Hi sorry to hear this, with my mom she was and is very much like yours. I have two sisters, and for quite a while I kept saying mom wasn't well, I suspected dementia, but as I was the one seeing her the most she could fool the others and it took them a long time to believe me. This year after mom having several falls we sort help from her doctor. She made a visit and now mom is getting help, she didn't and doesn't want it at all, she says there isn't anything wrong, but we now say to her the doc arranged it all. She goes along with it but hates it. She now has carers at tea time but won't let them do anything. I really think you and your dad should see her doc and explain the situation, mom had a bladder infection so we could get the doc there to see how she was without causing too much suspicion. Try it and see. Any help for your mom and dad is better than none.my mom was also not eating she is into junk food like triangle cheese and blocks of cheese, not good but better than nothing, it's like they don't want to eat a healthy meal. Good luck!

 

[CatLady Sue]

Thanks for your reply Princess t. I was hoping yesterday when i had the doctor out that he would be more helpful or ask questions about their situation. He seemed very hurried, even confirming that she did seem to have an infection after just looking in her ear canal! He did say that she would have to be admitted if there were further continence issues. Dads appointment isn't until 16/05 so i'm thinking perhaps i should go to parents tomorrow and try calling 111 to see what they think. I wish i could do it from home but i don't think that is allowed.

 

[Princess t]

Thanks for your reply Princess t. I was hoping yesterday when i had the doctor out that he would be more helpful or ask questions about their situation. He seemed very hurried, even confirming that she did seem to have an infection after just looking in her ear canal! He did say that she would have to be admitted if there were further continence issues. Dads appointment isn't until 16/05 so i'm thinking perhaps i should go to parents tomorrow and try calling 111 to see what they think. I wish i could do it from home but i don't think that is allowed.

Some doctors are a waste of time. Think it's just a case of trying. My dad died so perhaps that's why we can sort doc out more easily, I went to surgery and discussed mom, and I also know my older sister has phoned doc and talked to her over phone about moms problem. Perhaps talking to age uk might help, I've done that in past to.

 

[canary]

Hello Sue and welcome to Talking Point.
If you cant get her to take oral antibiotics then she needs IV antibiotics - and that can only be done in hospital. Its probably a bit late to contact your GP now so I think that contacting 111 would be a very good idea.

 

[CatLady Sue]

Hello Sue and welcome to Talking Point.
If you cant get her to take oral antibiotics then she needs IV antibiotics - and that can only be done in hospital. Its probably a bit late to contact your GP now so I think that contacting 111 would be a very good idea.

Hello Canary thanks for your reply. I called the Alzheimers Helpline at about 4.30 and they said the same thing about needing IV. I phoned my dad first to tell him that i was going to call the GP surgery but when i asked if there was any change he said that mum had woken up and was lucid and had taken some medicine although she didn't want anything to eat. He believes he can get another dose into her before (conventional) bedtime.

I will call/visit them in the morning and take it from there.

 

[CatLady Sue]

Progress

Well mum just phoned to tell me she'd locked herself out of her online banking (again) and that she was going back to bed. At least she was up and about for a little while, so progress, of a sort!

 

[AlsoConfused]

Sue, I think it's very hopeful your Dad now has an appointment initiated by the GP. I think that appointment is likely to be the result of your letter - well done you!

Has your Dad formally agreed in writing that the GP may discuss his medical care with you please? I ask because it will be much easier for you to watch out for your Dad and act as his advocate with the GP if the GP has already had your Dad's formal consent to the GP disclosing information to you.

 

[CatLady Sue]

Has your Dad formally agreed in writing that the GP may discuss his medical care with you please? I ask because it will be much easier for you to watch out for your Dad and act as his advocate with the GP if the GP has already had your Dad's formal consent to the GP disclosing information to you.

Hi. Dad is happy for me to attend appointments with him, This next time i will get the doctor to make a note of his consent. I hoping i can help him tell the reality of his situation so that we can at least find out about some carer support for him. Unfortunately it's a different story with mum, she is totally unwilling to relinquish anything, be it household roles that she is no longer performing or any kind of formal permission, POA, application for AA. She sometimes agrees in principle 'when it becomes necessary' but seems to think i have an ulterior motive in pressing the issue of any kind of additional support.

I did once get her to sign a letter so that a doctor could pass on information to me about some test results when she didn't want to attend the appointment but i can't remember exactly how i worded the letter or whether it would still apply as they have recently changed surgeries.