Has anyone used hidden camera in care home?

[SMBeach]

Hi. I feel bad for even thinking like this but due to distance (I’m 500 miles away) and some dissatisfaction I’ve had with the care I overheard whilst on loudspeaker to dad (his career didn’t know I was in the background and heard everything), I feel I’d be reassured or made aware of dads care, good and bad. Dad tells me the carers bath a lot and has mentioned the word bullies in the past to describe some carers. I wasn’t sure if this was just dad exaggerating as he can have a temper on him and misread people but having overheard his care on one occasion (no bullying but the use of inappropriate words) from one carer, I’m now thinking he may well be right. I’ve read the fact sheet on using hidden cameras that I found online but just wanted to know if anyone uses any. If so, which type and how do you keep it charged up. I have power of attorney and I have no doubt what so ever that dad would be happy with me doing this. Especially as it could prove or disprove what he tells me. Or doesn’t tell me.
If you have used a camera, we’re the care home ok about it?

 

[Jessbow]

we have one in mothers home, but doubt a care home would allow one.
if you dont rust them, move him

 

[northumbrian_k]

You would need the home's permission to install a camera or any other non-standard equipment. It would need to be tested for electrical safety. It would hardly then be hidden. That's without considering the ethics of secretly monitoring care staff. A first step would be to raise your concerns with the manager.

 

[SMBeach]

we have one in mothers home, but doubt a care home would allow one.
if you dont rust them, move him

It’s not so much about me not trusting ‘that’ care home specifically. Just that I don’t trust ‘any’ care home not to have its share of staff who shouldn't be in the job. They all seem to use agency staff due to staff shortage and I have many clients who are carers in different homes who all tell me their homes have carers like this and how angry it makes them feel.

I’ve also seen in the news the video footage of residents being abused in homes that had excellent reviews from relatives and heard from people who have loved ones in care homes where the care hadn’t been on a level they’d like but in more minor ways.

Ive no intention of nit picking every move of carers. That’s not in me to be like that and I hate conflict etc. and it’s not a relationship I’d want with the people who are looking out for my dad. I want to trust them.

But I’m not nieve either. I know that even if I moved dad, the chances are that I’d be met with the same. I came back feeling so positive about the care home and the way dad had settled and talked about the place. But I’m not there 100% of the time. Even if he lived much closer and I visited every week, I wouldn’t get a true feel for the place just from those visits as staff are not going to be so slack in front of family.

So what I’m really after is reassurance that good care is the norm and less than perfect is the occasional but that abuse is non existent.

I’m not an unreasonable person but I could move dad from pillar to post and I can bet there’ll always be some instances where certain staff shouldn’t be in the job.

I’d also feel reassured that if he fell, and I saw it, I could alert staff as I’ve witnessed call bells not being responded to immediately but that’s simply because there isn’t enough staff and not necessarily because staff don’t care or can’t be bothered.

I understand it’s not a nice thought being recorded at work but I have been given reason and it’s not my intention to be difficult with staff. But I still feel uncomfortable doing it. Even though I feel it’s the right thing to do by dad and myself.

 

[maisiecat]

Hi @SMBeach , I am not sure it would be legal to have a secret camera and usually all kit has to be checked by the maintenance man.
Is there no relative or friend who could visit your Dad regularly to assess his care. I am sure in lots of homes that people who have regular visitors probably do better. If there is nobody is it worth employing a companion carer to go in weekly to engage with your Dad and monitor the care.
I hope you find a way through it, I'm afraid that many care homes are short staffed usually cost determines staff levels.

 

[SMBeach]

Hi @SMBeach , I am not sure it would be legal to have a secret camera and usually all kit has to be checked by the maintenance man.
Is there no relative or friend who could visit your Dad regularly to assess his care. I am sure in lots of homes that people who have regular visitors probably do better. If there is nobody is it worth employing a companion carer to go in weekly to engage with your Dad and monitor the care.
I hope you find a way through it, I'm afraid that many care homes are short staffed usually cost determines staff levels

 

[SMBeach]

I’m sure I read it’s not illegal as such but there are things to consider for ‘legal reasons’. I assumed that if it was only in dad’s own room (his home effectively that he pays for) then it would be ok. Just as you would with cctv and ring door bells at home. And in shops etc. where many people are filmed whilst at work or passing by.
But I appreciate that just because that’s how I see things that doesn’t mean it’s accepted.
Electrical maintenance checks worries me a little. That doesn’t mean maintenance man takes apart dad’s digital screen, iphone etc does it? I’d worry if he did. Or is it just the fuse, plug and wires that are checked?

 

[SAP]

You can’t it stall cameras without the consent of the home as it could be a breach of human rights and any carer who found out could take legal action against you and your dad ( you being his representative) Also your dad needs to give his consent.And remember it’s not just carers you will be filming, it’s other staff, the GP, other visitors and importantly other residents if they wander in. I think their families would have something to say , I know I would. It’s not like your own home at all. You need a good understanding of GDPR and article 6 ( which again states that it is a management decision not an individual’s one)

Using cameras or other recording equipment to check somebody's care - Care Quality Commission

Installing a hidden camera or other recording equipment in a care home or other care service is a big decision. It can affect people’s privacy and dignity. And it can have legal consequences as well. It could help set your mind at ease about the care your loved one receives or even help identify...

www.cqc.org.uk

Any electrical appliances really should be be PAT under HSE regs. Although this is not a legal requirement in itself, there is a requirement for companies to be aware of what portable appliances are in the building and if they require regular testing. If not there will be a risk assessment in place. So in short,the management team will need to know or again they could take legal action against your dad if anything was to go wrong.

PAT (Portable appliance testing) - HSE's answers to popular questions

Health and Safety Executive (HSE) answers; frequency of tests, legal requirements, record keeping, new equipment, who can test, hire tools

www.hse.gov.uk

 

[Gosling]

Just to add my thoughts on this, you certainly cannot install cameras in a care home without their consent. I think you need to get that thought discarded asap.
You obviously have concerns about the care your Dad is getting. Please do take it up with the management there. Keeping a written record perhaps of what you have discussed.
As somebody else has already said, you should move him if you don't trust what they are saying. But installing cameras in a care home - No.

 

[Sarasa]

This is a report of a family that installed cameras to catch abuse of their loved one, so people have done it. However I think that family were visiting regularly and probably had a very clear idea that things were seriously wrong. They'd also be on hand to check the cameras. What you've described with your dad sounds like the sort of thing that could be cleared up with a good chat to the home manager.
I know you debated about moving your dad nearer to you. I think that, if it is possible to do that, that might be the best solution to set your mind at rest.

 

[SMBeach]

You can’t it stall cameras without the consent of the home as it could be a breach of human rights and any carer who found out could take legal action against you and your dad ( you being his representative) Also your dad needs to give his consent.And remember it’s not just carers you will be filming, it’s other staff, the GP, other visitors and importantly other residents if they wander in. I think their families would have something to say , I know I would. It’s not like your own home at all. You need a good understanding of GDPR and article 6 ( which again states that it is a management decision not an individual’s one)

Using cameras or other recording equipment to check somebody's care - Care Quality Commission

Installing a hidden camera or other recording equipment in a care home or other care service is a big decision. It can affect people’s privacy and dignity. And it can have legal consequences as well. It could help set your mind at ease about the care your loved one receives or even help identify...

www.cqc.org.uk

Any electrical appliances really should be be PAT under HSE regs. Although this is not a legal requirement in itself, there is a requirement for companies to be aware of what portable appliances are in the building and if they require regular testing. If not there will be a risk assessment in place. So in short,the management team will need to know or again they could take legal action against your dad if anything was to go wrong.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/faq-portable-appliance-

[QUOTE="SAP, post: 2060133, member...ording-equipment-check-somebodys-care[/QUOTE]

Any electrical appliances really should be be PAT under HSE regs. Although this is not a legal requirement in itself, there is a requirement for companies to be aware of what portable appliances are in the building and if they require regular testing. If not there will be a risk assessment in place. So in short,the management team will need to know or again they could take legal action against your dad if anything was to go wrong.

PAT (Portable appliance testing) - HSE's answers to popular questions

Health and Safety Executive (HSE) answers; frequency of tests, legal requirements, record keeping, new equipment, who can test, hire tools

www.hse.gov.uk

thank you for this information. I know people have done it as the videos have been shown on the news and internet. There is information on the use of cameras in care homes on the care inspectorate website. It’s not clear but I’ll look for the link.

 

[SMBeach]

This is a report of a family that installed cameras to catch abuse of their loved one, so people have done it. However I think that family were visiting regularly and probably had a very clear idea that things were seriously wrong. They'd also be on hand to check the cameras. What you've described with your dad sounds like the sort of thing that could be cleared up with a good chat to the home manager.
I know you debated about moving your dad nearer to you. I think that, if it is possible to do that, that might be the best solution to set your mind at rest.

Thank you. Yes I’m familiar with this as it’s only a couple of hours from me. I’ve watched documentaries on abuse in care homes too. I’m not saying there’s abuse going on in dad’s home. And I know I was very happy to see dad happy and settled on my last visit and there are lots of lovely friendly staff. A few not but I expect that anywhere. But. I also know that had it not been for the technology in dad’s room then I’d have had no idea about the practices of the carer in his room that day. So it’s hard to argue against the use of technology. Used irresponsibly is a different matter. I’ll try find the link on the care inspectorate. I do find the whole GDPR thing a bit weird. How someone can film me walking past their house. Knowing what time of day that was etc. not knowing if I’m under witness protection but a person can’t have a camera in their own room. Although, as I say, I’m sure the card inspectorate said it’s not illegal. But not straight forward.

 

[SMBeach]

One things clear though. Not many people do it and I’m not totally comfortable doing it behind staffs back. I’d rather have the camera in full display and tell staff. Especially as I have had reason. Then people know. Not in the bathroom though. Just dads main room. Of course anyone who is abusive would just lean against the camera anyway to move it out of vision or turn it off ‘by mistake’. So I need to find a way to settle my mind.

 

[Jessbow]

One things clear though. Not many people do it and I’m not totally comfortable doing it behind staffs back. I’d rather have the camera in full display and tell staff. Especially as I have had reason. Then people know. Not in the bathroom though. Just dads main room. Of course anyone who is abusive would just lean against the camera anyway to move it out of vision or turn it off ‘by mistake’. So I need to find a way to settle my mind.

I dont think you will settle your mind. Maybe hope for 99%good, and hope that the 1% that falls below your expectations is a minor issue.

 

[Dave63]

If I thought my mum was being abused or mistreated I would immediately raise my concerns with the management. If I didn't get an appropriate response or my suspicions were not allayed I wouldn't think twice about moving her out of that home. It's not uncommon for mum to complain about the treatment she receives. There are times when you would think she was in borstal or going through SAS selection. She's been like that in all three of her care homes so we know it's the illness talking and not the reality.

If you think there is a genuine risk to safety or welfare I think moving elsewhere would be the answer. But as @Jessbow says there isn't a 100% perfect care home and there will always be something we think they could do better. But don't be surprised if you have the same worries at another home because in the vast majority of times it's the illness and that won't change somewhere else.

 

[Rayreadynow]

Just to add my thoughts on this, you certainly cannot install cameras in a care home without their consent. I think you need to get that thought discarded asap.
You obviously have concerns about the care your Dad is getting. Please do take it up with the management there. Keeping a written record perhaps of what you have discussed.
As somebody else has already said, you should move him if you don't trust what they are saying. But installing cameras in a care home - No.

The CQC refers to the consent of the person whos care you are concerned about. Not the consent of the service provider as I understand it.

 

[Violet Jane]

I really feel that you should move your Dad nearer to you (or move closer to him). You would then be able to visit him regularly and satisfy yourself about the care he is receiving. Once you want to install a camera to check up on the staff I think that the trust has broken down. I think that having him so far away is fuelling your anxiety.

 

[SMBeach]

If I thought my mum was being abused or mistreated I would immediately raise my concerns with the management. If I didn't get an appropriate response or my suspicions were not allayed I wouldn't think twice about moving her out of that home. It's not uncommon for mum to complain about the treatment she receives. There are times when you would think she was in borstal or going through SAS selection. She's been like that in all three of her care homes so we know it's the illness talking and not the reality.

If you think there is a genuine risk to safety or welfare I think moving elsewhere would be the answer. But as @Jessbow says there isn't a 100% perfect care home and there will always be something we think they could do better. But don't be surprised if you have the same worries at another home because in the vast majority of times it's the illness and that won't change somewhere else.

That’s just it. I dont know that dad is being mistreated or abused. I witnessed a carer being very unresponsive to dad’s attempts at engaging in conversation and her either ignoring what he said or being blunt. For absolutely no reason. No ‘hello’ when she entered the room. No use of dad’s name. No response when he pointed out the little bird outside his window. Telling him to ‘sit’ like a dog. I hated it but accepted she’s just one of those carers who just needs a job and shouldn’t be in that job. I made excuses for her bluntness because I could hear she was foreign. But when she said to my dad “is that ****” and repeated it as I could hear dad was taken aback at her tone and use of the word - that to me was abusive use of language and no compassion for someone deeply embarrassed at being incontinent. She didn’t need to point it out to him. She didn’t need to use such language and tone like he’d done something disgusting. I reported it. It was angreed it was inappropriate and that it was agency staff. It may or may not have been. I was told they wouldn’t use her again. Do I believe that? Not necessarily. They need the staff. Then the next day before I heard any feedback on my complaint I read on Facebook that the deputy dealing with it was on her last day there. She never told me she was leaving and I really liked her. The manager left too a few weeks prior who I also really liked but she wrote a letter so we knew it was happening. I copied the new manager into the email which was initially sent but the new manager hasn’t contacted me. I will get back to them about it. I don’t think dad is being abused. But then I’d have said no staff would talk to him like that either until I heard it fir myself. And I dint believe moving dad would eradicate that. Dad has told me the staff vary a lot. I blamed the illness to a point as he complained lots about his carers at home but I also knew there’d be some truth in what he was saying as that’s life. But now I know for myself just how much they can vary. I’m concerned. But I’d be exactly the same with any hime. I’m not fooled by smiles and choice words and promises but I am reasonable. I just thought a camera would reassure me it was a one off and not a regular thing. Dad also mentioned carers giggling at inappropriate times. I dint know what he meant by that but it’s got me wondering now. But I can’t go through this with every hime and I suspect I will. I dint think it’s fair though tempting as it is to assume it’s always the illness.

 

[SMBeach]

I really feel that you should move your Dad nearer to you (or move closer to him). You would then be able to visit him regularly and satisfy yourself about the care he is receiving. Once you want to install a camera to check up on the staff I think that the trust has broken down. I think that having him so far away is fuelling your anxiety.

I think you are right about the distance. It is making it worse for me.

 

[sdmhred]

I would agree with @Violet Jane

You always have to make compromises with care homes and there will always be less than good staff wherever you go.

Care for our folks with dementia is i think a balance between their and OUR well-being.

i think cameras can be justified if ur investigating abuse but you’re not worried about that.

maybe start to think more about moving him down….