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H&W POA and Mental Capacity

Kingfisher1

Registered User
May 7, 2015
54
Kent
Hi everyone,

I will try to be brief; I have POA for financial and property for my elderly BIL and on Monday he also signed the form for Health & Welfare which I duly sent off to the OPG today after obtaining the requisite signatures etc.

Sadly he had a fall this afternoon and has been admitted to hospital and I rather fear that SS are going to come along and do a mental capacity test on him whilst he's in the ward as there have been some concerns about his memory loss recently. I had phoned SS to let them know about this and they were supposed to arrange an appointment with me (Harry is virtually deaf and refuses to wear his hearing aid so I need to "translate") and I specifically requested that I be present at the reassessment. He had a test in February this year which he passed, but I'm a bit worried about his recent memory loss although he knew exactly what he wanted when he signed the H&W form earlier this week. His carers think he may have a urine infection which may account for his current state of mind and the hospital are keeping him in pending blood and urine tests.

I guess my question is; if SS come along and do a mental capacity test on him before the OPG have rubber stamped the H&W form, will the form then be considered null and void should he fail the test?
 

sue38

Registered User
Mar 6, 2007
10,854
52
Wigan, Lancs
No, as long as he understood the form at the time that he signed it, it should be fine. Some people wait months or even years before registering an LPA (although I wouldn't recommend this) and only register once the person has lost capacity.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
20,063
North Manchester
"I guess my question is; if SS come along and do a mental capacity test on him before the OPG have rubber stamped the H&W form, will the form then be considered null and void should he fail the test?"

I don't see why, a certificate provider was satisfied with his capacity last Monday, since when he has had a fall requiring hospital admission and a UTI is suspected. Both events could mean that his capacity could have reduced.

If the SS ask about H&W POA , don't prompt them, just say it's been sent to the OPG for registration. They don't need any more details and certainty are not in a position to challenge his mental state last Monday.
 

Tubbsy

Registered User
Sep 5, 2010
110
Surrey
I had the same concern recently as my mum signed both PoA's weeks ago but I haven't registered them and she was then having a capacity assessment 2 weeks ago, where SS said she lacks capacity, which I thought they would.

Anyway, everyone on here says the same thing ie that if the person signing knew what they were doing at the point of signing, that's what counts. And if your certificate provider was happy with it too, then I guess all should be fine.

Hi everyone,

I will try to be brief; I have POA for financial and property for my elderly BIL and on Monday he also signed the form for Health & Welfare which I duly sent off to the OPG today after obtaining the requisite signatures etc.

Sadly he had a fall this afternoon and has been admitted to hospital and I rather fear that SS are going to come along and do a mental capacity test on him whilst he's in the ward as there have been some concerns about his memory loss recently. I had phoned SS to let them know about this and they were supposed to arrange an appointment with me (Harry is virtually deaf and refuses to wear his hearing aid so I need to "translate") and I specifically requested that I be present at the reassessment. He had a test in February this year which he passed, but I'm a bit worried about his recent memory loss although he knew exactly what he wanted when he signed the H&W form earlier this week. His carers think he may have a urine infection which may account for his current state of mind and the hospital are keeping him in pending blood and urine tests.

I guess my question is; if SS come along and do a mental capacity test on him before the OPG have rubber stamped the H&W form, will the form then be considered null and void should he fail the test?
 

Bramble68

Registered User
May 11, 2013
32
I have POA over my mum's financial affairs, but not a health and welfare one - this was set up years ago and registered 18 months ago. I understand how to get a H&W one in place, which we don't need yet, but in the meantime could we have mum write and sign a letter so that at the very least the medical system will pass information to us, etc.? Her GP, the practice nurses and reception team know me and my sister (village where we grew up), so informally this happens, but if/when she needs hospital treatment or whatever, this wouldn't stand.
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
11,949
London
You can, but mum would have to have the mental capacity to do so. If you want to make a health and welfare LPA do it will she can still agree. If you wait until you need it, it will be too late. Btw, I've never had a problem at hospital appointments. I just go in and say who I am, he has dementia, please speak to me. Sometimes I say I am attorney, but I've never had to produce it yet. At our surgery, I am registered as his carer, and they also always talk to me. This is in the big city of London.
 

Katrine

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
2,839
England
I have POA over my mum's financial affairs, but not a health and welfare one - this was set up years ago and registered 18 months ago. I understand how to get a H&W one in place, which we don't need yet, but in the meantime could we have mum write and sign a letter so that at the very least the medical system will pass information to us, etc.? Her GP, the practice nurses and reception team know me and my sister (village where we grew up), so informally this happens, but if/when she needs hospital treatment or whatever, this wouldn't stand.
A letter signed by your mum would be useful as a stopgap, although don't expect the medical people to record it properly when you wave it at them. I lost count of the number of copies of MIL's letter that we supplied to GP, nurses, hospital clinics etc. You would do better to have the permanent permission to access information that a H&W POA provides.

I can't see any reason to delay setting up the H&W POA, apart from the cost of paying for the registration (which should come from your mother's funds, or be claimed back from them). I have just done both of mine and was advised by the OPG that they currently have a processing timescale of about 10 weeks. The OPG acknowledges receipt fairly swiftly and informs you that they have written to the people to be notified, giving them 4 weeks to raise any objections. Then you would still have to wait at least 6 weeks after that before receiving the registered POA. Christmas and New Year are likely to slow the process down further. If you start now, and get your ducks in a row to have the form completed and signed, it could take you until mid-February to obtain registered POA. I would recommend that you don't delay it any longer; and get a signed permission letter from your mum as well.
 

Bramble68

Registered User
May 11, 2013
32
Thanks, Beate and Katrine, that's a great help. My sister and I have a a first appointment with an Admiral nurse this week, so it would be a good opportunity to get the ball rolling.
 

lin1

Registered User
Jan 14, 2010
9,319
East Kent
Just a suggestion I have read on here.
If a letter is written for GP etc with mum giving permission to discuss everything including treatment with you.

I would add ,and can only be rescinded by me in writing.
I'm not saying this would happen with your Mum, but as this illness progresses some people with dementia can get can get very suspicious or turn against members of the family and if they say to the Doc etc , not to tell you, then you'd could be in a bit of a cleft stick if mum is deemed to have capacity
 
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Kingfisher1

Registered User
May 7, 2015
54
Kent
Thank you everyone for your replies. BIL is now out of hospital and back home although I still haven't heard from SS regarding his mental capacity test. I'm hoping that the POA comes back quickly because then I can chase the SS up. At the moment I don't feel happy doing that in case there is some disagreement with them vis a vis me sending of the POA form just before they agreed to do a reassessment.