GETTING A FEEL FOR CARE HOME COSTS PER PERSON PER WEEK ACROSS UK - please share

[Buckles]

Hi guys

I'm trying to find a care home for my parents with dementia. The local care home gets quite poor reviews average/weak care commission ratings and changes hands frequently. They live in a rural community in Scotland that is hundreds of miles from anywhere else (and me).

I'm trying to balance the pros and cons of moving them to a home near me in London (insanely expensive comparatively, lose the local people, and very disorientating but I can see them every week multiple times), vs choosing this local home (extended family are there but won't visit like I would and no massive disruptive journey to move in, they know the town - been there their whole lives, and very similar people who work in the home BUT the care home poorly rated) or perhaps a city in Scotland that's better rated that I can get to in the space of 5 hours or so - although how often I could achieve this in real terms is a worry.

My experience of live-in carers in the last 18 months is that they are universally pretty poor and often extremely strange even when you pay through the nose for a company outstanding. So I don't know how much ratings really mean - I expect this will be awful regardless.

I think that one of the major deciding factors will be cost - because I would LOVE to have them near me and see them every week/several times a week but if it rinses their money too quickly and we end up moving to a state home within a couple of years, then that could be bad in the long term. London care homes seem to quote 2000-3000 pounds per head per week, whereas the local care home quotes 1000-1200 pounds per head per week.

Is there a list of individual care home costs somewhere? individually contacting them all is like pulling teeth as they want to send you the brochure but hide the price list. If people are happy to share their location and costs that would be really useful as this is starting to feel like monopoly money.

 

[Susan11]

I think you need to be a bit wary here. You haven't mentioned what your mother would like. I brought my Mum down from Lancashire to a care home in London. We had discussed it with her but on the journey down she got more and more upset. She refused adamantly to stay in the care home. She did not like it at all. People did not look or sound like her. She got very upset. Luckily when I rang the CH in Lancashire her room was still free so we had to take her back. We had no choice otherwise I would have had to get a Dr to sedate her!
The original CH welcomed her back with open arms. They had kept her favourite chair free for her and had a nice tea ready for all 3 of us.
I had underestimated the importance of her being with with people who were like her.

 

[Buckles]

Thanks for your reply, we've had live-in carers for 18 months from all walks of life and it's been quite hard to predict who they gel with, it's not always the cultural similarities that make the difference. The thing that makes the most difference is the time for them to settle. My Dad's fairly easy to settle and definitely doesn't know where he is, my Mum gets more agitated and spends most of the day walking around her own home asking to go home. So I think getting them somewhere and keeping things stable will make the most difference.

Family visits make the biggest difference to them and so being close to me would be really beneficial. The issue for choosing a care home is exasperated by the insanely remote nature of where they live - it's almost an island, connected to the mainland by a sliver of land, with one road in and out through a mountain range, 5 hours from the nearest City and it takes me 18 hours travel each way. This would be less of an issue if the (only) local care home didn't happen to also receive the worst ratings I've seen having looked at innumerable care home reports.

So, if I can find a balance of a good home, where I can see them without rinsing the money in a ridiculously shorter period then I think that's better than keeping them with not great care from people with the same accent. But I need to also find a place with 2 dementia spaces, figure out how to travel with them, support them through leaving their home and I need to pack up the house and get ready to sell it to fund future care costs - whilst not losing my job with all the time this will take.

 

[ClaireeW]

Hi @Buckles
West Sussex: single rooms I have seen for my Mum- £950 to £1800 per week.
£950 is residential, non-specialist for dementia, but with some PWD who "live well with dementia". £1000-1600 seems average range for dementia placement. £1800 was very large room in a non-dementia care residential home.
A well known carehome website (not sure I'm allowed to give the website address?) will give you rough pricings, but as always, prices depend on care needs in many places.

 

[Shedrech]

this may help

https://www.carehome.co.uk/advice/care-home-fees-and-costs-how-much-do-you-pay

and

Care home fees - Which?

Find out how fees vary across the UK. There are also differences depending on your care needs and the type of care home you are looking for.

www.which.co.uk

Paying for permanent residential care | Paying for a care home | Age UK

Care home fees can range hugely depending on the facilities or location of the home. Find out how to make residential home costs manageable from Age UK.

www.ageuk.org.uk

 

[Sarasa]

Hi @Buckles, have you looked at https://www.carehome.co.uk/ which I think is the site @ClaireeW was talking about. It might help you draw up a short list.
I moved mum to a care home in London a couple of years ago and then again a couple of months ago to a home near where I now live. At the same time we were doing that my husband's family wee moving his mother from her home into care.
From all that these are my thoughts:
Unless your parents have lots of family and friends that will visit them if they stay local or fairly local to where they now live moving them near you makes sense. I didn't think I'd move mum as she was fairly settled in her London care home. However after she had a fall I realised that, though I can get there fairly easily, it would still take me about four hours door to door, far too far in an emergency. Her London care home was expensive (£1,700 a week) and I was worried her money would run out too soon. I was also concerned, having read about @Susan11's experience with her mum that mum might find the accent round here a bit alien, but I don't think she's noticed. All in all I'm glad I've moved her.
If your parents' have different needs you might end up having to find two different homes, though there are homes that can cope with a wide range of needs, but maybe on different floors. While looking for my mum and my mother in law we found homes that would be great for one, but not so good for the other. For instance one modern home with a lot of dementia patients with difficult behaviours would have scared MiL, but my mum, who's own behaviour can be tricky, would have been fine. Another home with a lovely garden would have been great for MiL who would have liked the Georgian building as well as the garden, but downright dangerous for my mother as there were unsecured staircases and she would have been wandering up them like a shot. My mum also like new modern places not quirky features and sash windows.
There were several couples in mum's old home and they often turned one bedroom into a sitting room for them and they both slept in the other. Would they be distraught if they were apart? Something to ask about when looking. Also you may find they give you a bit of a deal on fees if they are both in the same home.
As for fees, one of the homes we looked at said that as long as the person had been in the home a couple of years they would look to match the local authority rate if the money ran out. Again something to ask about. Also ask about visiting times. The one downside of mum's new home is that visiting for her floor is only on Tuesdays and Saturdays. I seem to have booked myself out with other things on those days for the next couple of weeks so won't be able to visit for a while. MiL's new home has a more or less open visiting policy and she gets visits from one or other of her children most days.
I think that is enough rambling for now, but good luck with the search.

 

[northumbrian_k]

My wife's care home seems to be at the bargain basement end of the scale in terms of costs but the quality of care is great. Self-styled 'luxury' homes around the Newcastle area are upwards of £1,200 per week. When she was self-funding my wife was paying about £800 per week. Some places were cheaper. Importantly for continuity of care, my wife's home accepts the Local Authority rate without any top up.

 

[Buckles]

Thanks for your replies - thank you, very helpful.

I have been looking on carehome.co.uk but have found it quite hard to easily find the prices, you have to directly contact them all individually then I get endless calls all day from the homes - I was hoping there was a comparison list somewhere because of all the other myriad of factors that will make choosing a home quite a grey process, the one thing that seemed like a solid line was finance. And sadly, because I'm talking about 2 people, the money will go quickly for average care home costs in Scotland but at warp speed for average care home costs in London.

I will double-check the individual policies for accepting LA prices after the self-funding money runs out though for sure, as I'd love to be able to establish some continuity.

In terms of keeping them together, I think its my most important non-negotiable and most people seem to say they will either have one big room or have 2 singles and use one as a 'sitting room' - which i expect wont be policed and will sit empty! But i have been really concerned that my Mum can be really mentally challenging when shes confused and agitated (guaranteed with the move) whilst my Dad is quite quiet and content most of the time (although not immune to being wound up by my mum). I think both would struggle on a floor that had lots of people with difficult dementia behaviours but equally, my mum, whilst quiet and polite, might be too challenging for other calm residents when she's confused (she hallucinates scary things and gets paranoid).

 

[Buckles]

Has anyone consulted a dementia specialist lawyer? is it helpful?

I feel like I've lost all clarity but I'm starting to feel like I'm on the clock before someone falls at home with the live-in carer.

 

[lollyc]

We are Bucks/ Herts /Beds borders and costs here seem to be anywhere between £1000 - £1800 per week. Incidentally, feedback from someone who has family in the most expensive suggests price does not always equate to quality of care.
I'm wondering whether widening your net, but still within a reasonable distance for you to travel, would find lower cost options. Also be aware that costly homes often have window dressing to impress the relatives - cinema rooms, gym etc., which your parents may have no use for. View with your head, not your heart.

 

[canary]

My mum was in a dedicated dementia/EMI home at the lower end of the price range. The decor was a bit shabby and old fashioned, which could be a bit off-putting, but look past the decor and the care was wonderful. It had a homely atmosphere and mum was happy there.

Be aware that not all care homes are the same, even if they say they specialise in the same things. There are many care homes out there that say that they specialise in dementia care, but once the person with dementia reaches a certain stage (usually incontinence, wandering or resistance to personal care) the care home will give notice.

 

[Sarasa]

As for moving your parents I used a private ambulance service local to where I now live. They were brilliant but it cost over £600.00 for a move from London to the East Midlands. I guess remote Scotland to London would be a lot more.

 

[Buckles]

I completely agree more expensive is very likely to change the standard of care, we have the most expensive live-in-care company and the standard of carer is completely interchangeable with all the others.

The issue I'm finding is not so much of picking an expensive 'luxury' one, it's just the London impact that seems to add £1000-1500 to the weekly price regardless of standards. My only worry about the local one having such poor reviews is that it seems quite difficult to get bad reviews on these care inspectorate reports. Most seem classified as good with maybe a couple of adequates, but the local one has changed hands repeatedly, the local SW had a very guarded opinion and it has received consistent adequate and weak ratings from the care inspectorate.

But it would be great to get a feel for what is reasonable in a given area. I think I must be missing the slightly cheaper London based ones, and surrounding commutable areas is a good shout - thank you!

We are Bucks/ Herts /Beds borders and costs here seem to be anywhere between £1000 - £1800 per week. Incidentally, feedback from someone who has family in the most expensive suggests price does not always equate to quality of care.
I'm wondering whether widening your net, but still within a reasonable distance for you to travel, would find lower cost options. Also be aware that costly homes often have window dressing to impress the relatives - cinema rooms, gym etc., which your parents may have no use for. View with your head, not your heart.

 

[Buckles]

My mum was in a dedicated dementia/EMI home at the lower end of the price range. The decor was a bit shabby and old fashioned, which could be a bit off-putting, but look past the decor and the care was wonderful. It had a homely atmosphere and mum was happy there.

Be aware that not all care homes are the same, even if they say they specialise in the same things. There are many care homes out there that say that they specialise in dementia care, but once the person with dementia reaches a certain stage (usually incontinence, wandering or resistance to personal care) the care home will give notice.

Wow - ok, thats really useful. We are already meeting all those problems at baseline across both of them, so hopefully this will be more straightforward.

 

[Buckles]

Yeh, I'd be less focussed on all the cinema room stuff and more interested in how they interact with the clients and what the other clients are like, the limits of what they will deal with... eurgh - this is the most stressful thing.

We are Bucks/ Herts /Beds borders and costs here seem to be anywhere between £1000 - £1800 per week. Incidentally, feedback from someone who has family in the most expensive suggests price does not always equate to quality of care.
I'm wondering whether widening your net, but still within a reasonable distance for you to travel, would find lower cost options. Also be aware that costly homes often have window dressing to impress the relatives - cinema rooms, gym etc., which your parents may have no use for. View with your head, not your heart.

 

[Buckles]

As for moving your parents I used a private ambulance service local to where I now live. They were brilliant but it cost over £600.00 for a move from London to the East Midlands. I guess remote Scotland to London would be a lot more.

I was thinking of hiring a nice big people carrier and driving with my partner and dog, but taking them drives to the nearest City for hospital etc. has been really stressful in the past. i have considered a hotel stop overnight on the way. I had even considered a bloody campervan (lol) so we can stop regularly and have a loo for my mum and somewhere private to support my dad with continence issues etc on the road. Had wondered about flying and sorting out the little car thing for inside the airport. There is no easy way to move them if we choose to move them.

I have come to accept that this will be horribly stressful but hopefully short-lived if we go for the move.

 

[canary]

Yeh, I'd be less focussed on all the cinema room stuff and more interested in how they interact with the clients and what the other clients are like, the limits of what they will deal with... eurgh - this is the most stressful thing.

Do not worry if there are residents who have more advanced dementia. If there are residents at all stages, including final stages, this means that they will be able to care for your parents right up to the end

 

[imthedaughter]

If/when my dad's home can no longer cope with him, I'd like to move him from the south west closer to me in London. I'd definitely hire a private ambulance for transportation.
What puts me off doing more than basic research on finding a suitable home is that I don't think I'll find anywhere here which will accept £650 a week, and that's the top band the local authority will pay (as their original local authority still pays for them).

 

[Buckles]

If/when my dad's home can no longer cope with him, I'd like to move him from the south west closer to me in London. I'd definitely hire a private ambulance for transportation.
What puts me off doing more than basic research on finding a suitable home is that I don't think I'll find anywhere here which will accept £650 a week, and that's the top band the local authority will pay (as their original local authority still pays for them).

Sorry for my ignorance, but does this mean that when you are no longer in the position to self-fund (and haven't made a deal with your first care home), that you are only able to place him in a care home that will accept their original LA rate regardless of where it's located? I had stupidly anticipated that there were homes that have LA beds and that this would be based more on availability than a post code lottery of funding.

The levels of injustice never end with this disease.

 

[MartinWL]

I would be wary of moving people to London from rural Scotland. The cultural contrast could make them unhappy. In London I would expect staff shortages, and of course high costs. If I were you I would look at places in Scotland that were less difficult to visit.