Fund care homes for people with Alzheimer's or dementia irrespective of finances

[Lawson58]

When I have spoken to my son about leaving money to him and his sister when I die he’s said “The money is there for you, if it needs to be spent on care then that’s fine”.
I think what most self funders feel is unfair is that they pay more for residential care than those funded by the Local Authorities and are, in effect, subsidising other people while losing their own savings.

My children also have no expectation of inheriting money from me as they understand that I have worked for it just as they have worked for what they have. I agree that it is unfair that the cost of something varies depending on who is paying for it. I don’t mind subsidising others who have less than I do as that is why there are things like pensions. But nobody expects you to pay more than someone else for anything from an apple to a motor car.

 

[Collywobbles]

I suppose it’s about parity. Dementia is a medical condition. It seems to me that it’s singled out as too expensive to provide the necessary care, simply because it’s so common. This feels unfair.

As I’ve said elsewhere, the current contributary system will collapse in a few years anyway. My generation and that of my parents have had more opportunity to build savings and own our own homes. My nephews never will. Nor will there be anything left for them to inherit from previous generations, as all of our assets will be eaten by care charges long before we die.

Something needs to change. But if we want a better service, we need to pay for it. The former idea of increasing NI and ring-fencing that increase for the NHS initially, then to fund ongoing social care, did seem very sensible (if not politically popular).

 

[Rayreadynow]

I hate to say that only people affected by this funding situation are truly interested in doing something about the funding situation. My understanding is that in terms of percentage, its a relatively small number of people that are affected and therefore there is no real incentive for any government to do anything about it.

I believe the there have been a number of petitions relating to the same subject and they all receive low numbers of signatures.? So many petitions will dilute there impact.

**This government was due to increase NI contribution by 1%-2% last year in order to fund the NHS and Social Care but this was rejected by MP's. Instead voting for a NI contribution reduction in both Jan and April this year**.

David Cameron, Teresa May, Boris Johnson all promised that '... no one will have to sell their home in their lifetime in order to pay for care'. All kicked the decision down the road.

 

[maggie6445]

My children also have no expectation of inheriting money from me as they understand that I have worked for it just as they have worked for what they have. I agree that it is unfair that the cost of something varies depending on who is paying for it. I don’t mind subsidising others who have less than I do as that is why there are things like pensions. But nobody expects you to pay more than someone else for anything from an apple to a motor car.

My daughter has said she doesn't want my money . But...I want her too. It's my money !
If I'm frail with age I can stay in my house ,pay for care and when funds exhausted ss will take over funding. Daughter inherits my house as my wish!

But.... If I have a neurological illness , dementia, I'm told I have no choice , I have to go into care and pay for it.,sell my house to fund it. My wish for my money totally ignored. No rights whatsoever. Abuse of a vulnerable person.

 

[Lawson58]

I suppose it’s about parity. Dementia is a medical condition. It seems to me that it’s singled out as too expensive to provide the necessary care, simply because it’s so common. This feels unfair.

As I’ve said elsewhere, the current contributary system will collapse in a few years anyway. My generation and that of my parents have had more opportunity to build savings and own our own homes. My nephews never will. Nor will there be anything left for them to inherit from previous generations, as all of our assets will be eaten by care charges long before we die.

Something needs to change. But if we want a better service, we need to pay for it. The former idea of increasing NI and ring-fencing that increase for the NHS initially, then to fund ongoing social care, did seem very sensible (if not politically popular).

I don’t think the younger generation think that they will ever be able to buy a house so don’t bother budgeting their money. But it can be done. My 26 year old granddaughter left home when she was 18 years old, was a trainee for three years so not a great income till she got her position which is pretty well paid. However, she was thrifty and saved enough for a deposit on a house. She owns her car outright and has managed a trip overseas while paying for her mortgage. She has a partner and of course he contributes financially but has no ownership in the house.

She spends money on what is important to her but hates wasting it.

 

[Rayreadynow]

SS will only fund 4 visits per day. And will not normally fund night time visits or care.

 

[maggie6445]

nobody expects you to pay more than someone else for anything from an apple to a motor car.

Unless you have dementia, money and need a care home

 

[Rayreadynow]

nobody expects you to pay more than someone else for anything from an apple to a motor car.

Unless you have dementia, money and need a care home

The care home wage and salary bill for my PWD is £1 million per year for a home of 60 residents and its definitely not 24 hr care.

There is also £1 million spent on the lease of the care home property.

 

[Jessbow]

People with dementia can't manage their needs . That's the point,your neighbour can and is presumably safe. Your neighbour may be leaving
an expensive house instead of using for care? And the removing of the state pension on going into care could fund the food and heat. After all it's expected to be sufficient if you live in your own home!

I'd argue, that for a time they can, the rate of progression is different in everyone.
Some are perfectly capable of making a cuppa, some may wash & dress them selves...or some incapable of either, depending on stage.

Can my neighbour manage her needs? She is, and always has been profoundly deaf- and no, she doesnt have an expensive house to leave to her daughter.
Adaptive technology cost a fortune.

 

[maggie6445]

The point I was trying to make is that once ss say you need a care home to meet your needs then it should be free at the point of need need not want

 

[Lawson58]

The point I was trying to make is that once ss say you need a care home to meet your needs then it should be free at the point of need need not want

The problem with making it free is that someone has to pay for it. If the PWD doesn’t pay if they can afford to then the burden falls on to taxpayers. I don’t think they would be happy knowing that they are contributing to the cost of a care home so that the families can inherit.

I wonder how an average working family would feel if they could not find a suitable bed for their PWD because someone who could afford to pay for a bed was occupying one.

 

[notsogooddtr]

Sorry to be a very wet blanket but no government will see this through as the cost will be horrendous.

Does this mean that multimillionaires and billionaires (who already often dodge their tax responsibilities) will get the same? Hmmmm. If not, why not?

If you drain the money pot, then the standard of care has to drop because there will simply be not enough money to go around. That’s why those who can afford to pay should. The money is for their benefit, not for the beneficiaries of the will.

NHS is in deep trouble and consecutive governments have been unable to solve the problems so how can this work? Seriously?

Sorry to rain on your parade and I admire your intention.

I agree.

 

[maggie6445]

The problem with making it free is that someone has to pay for it. If the PWD doesn’t pay if they can afford to then the burden falls on to taxpayers. I don’t think they would be happy knowing that they are contributing to the cost of a care home so that the families can inherit.

I wonder how an average working family would feel if they could not find a suitable bed for their PWD because someone who could afford to pay for a bed was occupying one.

well seeing you mention families... Pwd belong to them you know!
I wonder how pwd and their families feel about paying tax ,, (especially on interest from the money from house sales), to pay for free nursery care for parents who earn under £100,000! Costing the govt £8 billion!!
Society needs to be fairer
Pwd pay for care until their savings are around £14,500 . And why shouldn't families inherit? It's not govt money and older people have paid in to the system, pay tax and even the poorest pensioners will be soon be paying tax on the state pension to help families on income up to 100,000k. Maybe pwd and families are not happy funding these families so they can afford big cars and expensive mobile phones!
Bash the old !!!
Oh .. we are an average working family and I don't think it fair we pay more for a bed because we saved instead of foreign holidays and big expensive cars.
Systems need to be fair to everyone in society, not just the young

 

[Agzy]

Quick search of parliamentary site gives

Petition: Fund care homes for people with Alzheimer's or dementia irrespective of finances

People are subject to financial assessment to determine if funding for care homes is available. I request the Government to provide care provision for individuals with Alzheimer's or dementia regardless of financial status.

petition.parliament.uk

Mansfield giving good support.

Cheers @nitram . Managed it easy enough and tried to share on FB and ended up on a merry-go-round and changed password. FB can be such a pain but all sorted 😀

 

[daisy chain 1]

Hi everyone my dad has Alzheimer's and i have set a petition up with the government to help families like mine who have to pay the full cost of care due their financial statues i believe this is totally unacceptable when my dad has paid taxes all his working life I would be most grateful if we could gain as many signatures as possible to help families like mine but i have to have ten posts before i can share the link

 

[daisy chain 1]

well seeing you mention families... Pwd belong to them you know!
I wonder how pwd and their families feel about paying tax ,, (especially on interest from the money from house sales), to pay for free nursery care for parents who earn under £100,000! Costing the govt £8 billion!!
Society needs to be fairer
Pwd pay for care until their savings are around £14,500 . And why shouldn't families inherit? It's not govt money and older people have paid in to the system, pay tax and even the poorest pensioners will be soon be paying tax on the state pension to help families on income up to 100,000k. Maybe pwd and families are not happy funding these families so they can afford big cars and expensive mobile phones!
Bash the old !!!
Oh .. we are an average working family and I don't think it fair we pay more for a bed because we saved instead of foreign holidays and big expensive cars.
Systems need to be fair to everyone in society, not just the young

 

[maggie6445]

Petition: Fund care homes for people with Alzheimer's or dementia irrespective of finances

People are subject to financial assessment to determine if funding for care homes is available. I request the Government to provide care provision for individuals with Alzheimer's or dementia regardless of financial status.

petition.parliament.uk

If you agree please sign

 

[Lawson58]

well seeing you mention families... Pwd belong to them you know!
I wonder how pwd and their families feel about paying tax ,, (especially on interest from the money from house sales), to pay for free nursery care for parents who earn under £100,000! Costing the govt £8 billion!!
Society needs to be fairer
Pwd pay for care until their savings are around £14,500 . And why shouldn't families inherit? It's not govt money and older people have paid in to the system, pay tax and even the poorest pensioners will be soon be paying tax on the state pension to help families on income up to 100,000k. Maybe pwd and families are not happy funding these families so they can afford big cars and expensive mobile phones!
Bash the old !!!
Oh .. we are an average working family and I don't think it fair we pay more for a bed because we saved instead of foreign holidays and big expensive cars.
Systems need to be fair to everyone in society, not just the young

I don’t live in the UK but lived there for several years so I won’t profess to know all the ins and outs of current economic policy and fiscal management but there are still truths that remain.

I have worked all my life for what I have. Because I have some money put away, we do not receive a full pension so use our savings to live. But I consider that to be OK as I don’t begrudge people who have been struggling to receive a little extra.

I have no beef about people who have oodles of money paying their way, and believe that governments need to block loopholes allowing the wealthy to reduce the amount of tax they pay (or don’t pay).

In another few years, the aging population is going to explode and the percentage of people who are working and paying tax is going to reduce, meaning that there will simply not be enough money going into revenue to provide the services that will be needed, needed by not only PWD, but all of us. That includes not only care but all the things we use in our everyday lives and don’t even think about.

It is a simple reality that we all have to carry the cost of the services we use because the money cannot be conjured up out of thin air. We all understand that the gap between rich and poor is growing and hanging on to your own money instead of paying for the services you are using, expecting someone else to pay isn’t exactly fair either.

 

[maggie6445]

I don’t live in the UK but lived there for several years so I won’t profess to know all the ins and outs of current economic policy and fiscal management but there are still truths that remain.

I have worked all my life for what I have. Because I have some money put away, we do not receive a full pension so use our savings to live. But I consider that to be OK as I don’t begrudge people who have been struggling to receive a little extra.

I have no beef about people who have oodles of money paying their way, and believe that governments need to block loopholes allowing the wealthy to reduce the amount of tax they pay (or don’t pay).

In another few years, the aging population is going to explode and the percentage of people who are working and paying tax is going to reduce, meaning that there will simply not be enough money going into revenue to provide the services that will be needed, needed by not only PWD, but all of us. That includes not only care but all the things we use in our everyday lives and don’t even think about.

It is a simple reality that we all have to carry the cost of the services we use because the money cannot be conjured up out of thin air. We all understand that the gap between rich and poor is growing and hanging on to your own money instead of paying for the services you are using, expecting someone else to pay isn’t exactly fair either.

We are / have paid for the service we are using! Still pay tax ,pay more than govt funded for bed so subsidising others ,tax on the savings from house sale money. . All take from the vulnerable and sick. Society is judged by how they treat the vulnerable. As you say ,you don't live in the UK !

Petition: Fund care homes for people with Alzheimer's or dementia irrespective of finances

People are subject to financial assessment to determine if funding for care homes is available. I request the Government to provide care provision for individuals with Alzheimer's or dementia regardless of financial status.

petition.parliament.uk

Please sign if you agree

 

[Rayreadynow]

well seeing you mention families... Pwd belong to them you know!
I wonder how pwd and their families feel about paying tax ,, (especially on interest from the money from house sales), to pay for free nursery care for parents who earn under £100,000! Costing the govt £8 billion!!
Society needs to be fairer
Pwd pay for care until their savings are around £14,500 . And why shouldn't families inherit? It's not govt money and older people have paid in to the system, pay tax and even the poorest pensioners will be soon be paying tax on the state pension to help families on income up to 100,000k. Maybe pwd and families are not happy funding these families so they can afford big cars and expensive mobile phones!
Bash the old !!!
Oh .. we are an average working family and I don't think it fair we pay more for a bed because we saved instead of foreign holidays and big expensive cars.
Systems need to be fair to everyone in society, not just the young

I agree....

I see plenty of parents turning up in brand new cars at the local Nursery in the knowledge that the government is funding there nursery places. Parents with a joint income of £100000 and even less should be funding there own Nursery places.