Falling in love

[Second daughter]

For the first time in her life our Mum has says that she is in love. She has some vascular dementia from a stroke and some Alzheimers. She has found a boyfriend at her care home who is only in his mid 70's and all they want is to be together. However, it seems that the care home can't cope with the 'disinhibition' and their behaviour - quite heavy 'petting' is disturbing to them. The doctor has said that my Mum has not got capacity and therefore is vulnerable to abuse consequently her boyfriend is having to leave to go somewhere where they might be able to cope better with his amorous behaviour. The home tries to keep them apart but often has to give in. She is utterly miserable and anxious without him. Our Mum broke her hip in a fall three weeks ago but is recovering well and came out for lunch this week with the boyfriend and the boyfriend's daughter who is at her wits end worrying about where he will go as they want him to leave 'now'. They will not let them be alone together although my Mum keeps wanting him to come back to her room. Does anyone know if it is possible to pay extra for someone to keep an eye on them
Has this sort of thing happened to anyone else??

 

[Helen33]

Hello second daughter,

First of all WELCOME to Talking Point.

My first reaction was that it was a shame that they are being kept apart. It feels very sad that someone your mother has such feelings for is having to leave. This may create your mother experiencing deep grief and loss. What is the worst that can happen by them being allowed to be together?

I think it might be worth considering what steps would need to be taken in order for them to enjoy each other!!! They may need the use of another room where others are not disturbed by their open display of feelings and behaviour.

I do wish you well with the problem and hope that the best way forward for your mother is found.

Love

 

[Katrine]

Hi, my reaction was the same as Helen's. However, at the moment I would worry that mum and the boyfriend would forget about her broken hip and she might get hurt if they were alone. I think I would ask the staff to do a risk assessment on your mum to identify what risks she is running in going to a room alone with the boyfriend. Beyond that, shouldn't any adult be allowed some privacy to express their emotional and sexual feelings? If they are disinhibited in public then they can be steered to a more private space. They should only be discouraged if their going away to canoodle is incompatible with other activities such as meals or personal care.

The general risks I can envisage BTW would be:
- one or both has a living partner outside the CH who will be upset by this relationship
- the effect on your mum if her boyfriend transferred his affections elsewhere
- either of them could become physically aggressive with the other (tiff, refusal of sex, conversational misunderstanding etc) and there would be no-one to intervene.

Then balance this with the risks involved in keeping them apart, which could involve aggression and depression.

The man's daughter is being put in a difficult situation too, and it seems to be an unnecessarily extreme response to ask her to move her father to another CH. There must be professional training and guidelines about this. I wonder why the CH staff are so keen to discourage the relationship? If its just making them uncomfortable then I would suggest they need more training.

 

[BR_ANA]

My mom had several bf on CH.

I would say staff hate cleaning, so no sex allowed.

Other residents can be shocked due to 2 old people behave like teenagers.

Some aggressive behaviour can happen, I mean they can be jealous of staff or familiars, or one can forget who is bf and share looks with other resident.

If bf wasn't on mom sight she was so confused that she didn't miss them. Some died, others were moved to different floor and she just forget one and find another one. (Great short term memory)

Now she is so advanced on dementia that she is not jealous anymore.

My mother suffered because she missed her first husband, her CH's bf ware just replacing him.

I allowed mom has bf, but I didn't allowed nothing more than hold hand and kiss. I mean 80 years ago that was the most that bf could do.

Night staff used to bring my mom or her bf to 'work' with them, so they knew what they were doing. ( night shift was 2 careers to 30 residents)

 

[Not so Rosy]

This happened with my Dad in April. The care home called in the Safeguarding Team and Dad was put on 1 to 1 care, 24/7. They decided the lady in question was the instigator of the relationship but it was my Dad who had to leave the care home.

 

[Second daughter]

Thank you Helen for your reply

Hello second daughter,

First of all WELCOME to Talking Point.

My first reaction was that it was a shame that they are being kept apart. It feels very sad that someone your mother has such feelings for is having to leave. This may create your mother experiencing deep grief and loss. What is the worst that can happen by them being allowed to be together?

I think it might be worth considering what steps would need to be taken in order for them to enjoy each other!!! They may need the use of another room where others are not disturbed by their open display of feelings and behaviour.

I do wish you well with the problem and hope that the best way forward for your mother is found.

Love

I have only just had time to get back to look and see if I have had any replies - I did not know I had to apply settings for emails so assumed I had no replies!

It seems that once the doctor/psychiatrist has decided that someone doesn't have capacity they can make decisions as they wish. I know my Mum knows her own mind and clearly states her feelings and desires even if she can't remember the boyfriend's name! He has now left and gone to another care home but my Mum is constantly wandering the home looking for him - good for her new hip but not her mental welfare. I'm hoping she will gradually forget him but has asked to go and be with him, asks how she can live without him and is totally miserable. Surely at 92 the risk involved in such a relationship should be outweighed by a short time of happiness but obviously care homes are very risk averse as they don't want to be charged with allowing abuse or injury.

 

[Second daughter]

Hi, my reaction was the same as Helen's. However, at the moment I would worry that mum and the boyfriend would forget about her broken hip and she might get hurt if they were alone. I think I would ask the staff to do a risk assessment on your mum to identify what risks she is running in going to a room alone with the boyfriend. Beyond that, shouldn't any adult be allowed some privacy to express their emotional and sexual feelings? If they are disinhibited in public then they can be steered to a more private space. They should only be discouraged if their going away to canoodle is incompatible with other activities such as meals or personal care.

The general risks I can envisage BTW would be:
- one or both has a living partner outside the CH who will be upset by this relationship
- the effect on your mum if her boyfriend transferred his affections elsewhere


- either of them could become physically aggressive with the other (tiff, refusal of sex, conversational misunderstanding etc) and there would be no-one to intervene.

Then balance this with the risks involved in keeping them apart, which could involve aggression and depression.

The man's daughter is being put in a difficult situation too, and it seems to be an unnecessarily extreme response to ask her to move her father to another CH. There must be professional training and guidelines about this. I wonder why the CH staff are so keen to discourage the relationship? If its just making them uncomfortable then I would suggest they need more training.

I'm afraid there was never any question of ever allowing them to be alone together although my Mum constantly asked for him to go to her room with her and there was a fuss each night when they had to part. I can understand there are risks of physical harm as both of them have dementia and the bf is very physically strong and heavy handed but she loves being treated like a human being instead of a frail old lady. Anyway, as I said in the last reply, he has now moved to another care home and all I can do is hope she forgets but am tempted to see if it might be possible for her to join him there. My sister disagrees however and wants it all to be forgotten.

 

[Second daughter]

Thanks for your reply

My mom had several bf on CH.

I would say staff hate cleaning, so no sex allowed.

Other residents can be shocked due to 2 old people behave like teenagers.

Some aggressive behaviour can happen, I mean they can be jealous of staff or familiars, or one can forget who is bf and share looks with other resident.

If bf wasn't on mom sight she was so confused that she didn't miss them. Some died, others were moved to different floor and she just forget one and find another one. (Great short term memory)

Now she is so advanced on dementia that she is not jealous anymore.

My mother suffered because she missed her first husband, her CH's bf ware just replacing him.

I allowed mom has bf, but I didn't allowed nothing more than hold hand and kiss. I mean 80 years ago that was the most that bf could do.

Night staff used to bring my mom or her bf to 'work' with them, so they knew what they were doing. ( night shift was 2 careers to 30 residents)

Please see other replies

 

[Second daughter]

Thanks for your reply

This happened with my Dad in April. The care home called in the Safeguarding Team and Dad was put on 1 to 1 care, 24/7. They decided the lady in question was the instigator of the relationship but it was my Dad who had to leave the care home.

Let's hope you found another care home that was a bit more understanding. I wouldn't have thought it was that uncommon but I don't think they handle these things very well. Other types of unusual behaviour are tolerated but being in love isn't. I would rather they were happy for their remaining months/ years even if there is a small risk of injury.

 

[Kevinl]

If someone for all of their life been very tactile and affectionate then the sterile atmosphere of some homes must be hard. For 30 odd years every time my wife went past me she'd always stoke my arm, pat my bum or pull my (admittedly very long) hair. When it stops you do miss it now if I put my arms around her she stands still with her arms at her sides and doesn't move. Society has always sought to control who has sex with whom, not married and you can get stoned, same sex and you can be an outcast, too old and, well it's just wrong. Safest bet is to blame the man because women don't have "feelings" like that.
K

 

[Not so Rosy]

When it happened with my Dad, I was very upset but just for a few minutes.

Funny enough the very first day Dad was in that home, two male residents warned me about the lady in question. They were residents without Dementia so probably had a clearer view of what was happening.

Dad is a widower and I didn't kick off about it but the lady in question does still have a husband who I assume did take offence.

Dad is a very tactile person too, just in what I would call a normal way. Always shakes hands and if someone is a bit wobbly on their feet he will put his arm around them to help them into a chair, male or female.