Can anyone help me with a problem I am having with getting my mothers pension paid into a different account so I can manage her affairs easier now she is in a care home. I have an EPA and have been able to get her state pension transfered without problems. But she also gets a private pension which I want to get transfered as well. The company, whilst recognizing I have the EPA, say they cannot do as I ask because their rules do not allow the pension to be paid into an account unless it is in the name of the pension holder or a joint account with them. I would have thought that the EPA which is a legal document would take presidence over the companies own rules and regulations but they still say they can't do it. All advice would be much appreciated.
Enduring power of attorney
- Thread starter Mike.M
- Start date
Hi Mike
I too hold an enduring power of attorney for my dad (as yet unregistered). The way that I have worked round the same problem with my dad's private pension is that I have notified the bank/building society that I hold POA and pension company have continued to pay dad's pension into his account in his name. But, as I have POA on the account, I have requested my own bank card/cheque book for the account. So far it is working fine, I have a cash card which I can use in an ATM and also I cheque book which I can sign as POA. Guess that it may depend on who you bank with...(might get into trouble with the mods here)....but dad uses Nationwide(I have no financial connection with Nationwide and there are many other banks who can offer the same service) and I have found there to be no issues what so ever.
Hope this helps
Love Burfordthecat x x
I too hold an enduring power of attorney for my dad (as yet unregistered). The way that I have worked round the same problem with my dad's private pension is that I have notified the bank/building society that I hold POA and pension company have continued to pay dad's pension into his account in his name. But, as I have POA on the account, I have requested my own bank card/cheque book for the account. So far it is working fine, I have a cash card which I can use in an ATM and also I cheque book which I can sign as POA. Guess that it may depend on who you bank with...(might get into trouble with the mods here)....but dad uses Nationwide(I have no financial connection with Nationwide and there are many other banks who can offer the same service) and I have found there to be no issues what so ever.
Hope this helps
Love Burfordthecat x x
Have they put it in writing to you, Mike?
If not, get them to do so ASAP. Sharpens the mind, sometimes.
If they have, then all I can suggest is that if you have POA anyway, then no matter which account they choose to pay the pension into, you should be able to have access to that account.
If I am wrong, then so be it. But surely a POA allows you to "speak to any bank" about any account that your mother may have, and to make arrangements accordingly.
No? Do hope so, and hope that you can get it sorted.
If not, get them to do so ASAP. Sharpens the mind, sometimes.
If they have, then all I can suggest is that if you have POA anyway, then no matter which account they choose to pay the pension into, you should be able to have access to that account.
If I am wrong, then so be it. But surely a POA allows you to "speak to any bank" about any account that your mother may have, and to make arrangements accordingly.
No? Do hope so, and hope that you can get it sorted.
Whether the pension company can or cannot make this rule (and I suspect they can, particularly if the rule is for everyone, not just people with EPAs), I would be inclined to keep having the pension paid into an account that was in your mother's name, since that makes it clear that you are not co-mingling funds and it means that subsequently it will be a lot easier to keep track of what has been spent. I think it can be a mistake to try and deal with someone else's money without keeping it separate. You should have no trouble obtaining a bank card or cheque book on an account that you are administering on your mother's behalf.
Hi Mike.M,
My husband holds EPA for my mother-in-law. Her private pension and state pension are both paid into her current account. The chequebook and all documentation for this account have my husband as the named holder followed by the text "Power of Attorney for" and then my mother-in-law's name.
This seems to work just fine as he manages the account but his mother's funds are kept separate from any other family funds.
Take care,
Sandy
My husband holds EPA for my mother-in-law. Her private pension and state pension are both paid into her current account. The chequebook and all documentation for this account have my husband as the named holder followed by the text "Power of Attorney for" and then my mother-in-law's name.
This seems to work just fine as he manages the account but his mother's funds are kept separate from any other family funds.
Take care,
Sandy
Mike
What a pain, but just set up a direct debit from the account into which your mum's pension is paid into whichever account you prefer.
Margaret
What a pain, but just set up a direct debit from the account into which your mum's pension is paid into whichever account you prefer.
Margaret
I held EPA for my dad I had to give the bank a sealed copy of the EPA and they set up a bank account in my name acting for my dad. They supplied debit card, cheque book, I notified the pensions and also had to send them a sealed copy and that was it, it worked a treat and made it quite easy for me to do the accounts each year for the court of protection.
Marianne
Marianne
Marianne,
Can I ask you a question?
I am just in the process of registering my Dad's EPA. You have mentioned in your post about 'doing the accounts each year for the court of protection'. Now .... I'm not an accountant and am not familiar with formal book keeping .... but am quite OK using a spreadsheet and was going to use this to record what I spend Dad's money on.
Is there a set way that they like you to account for how you've used their money? Any websites giving examples?
Thank you.
Elaine
Can I ask you a question?
I am just in the process of registering my Dad's EPA. You have mentioned in your post about 'doing the accounts each year for the court of protection'. Now .... I'm not an accountant and am not familiar with formal book keeping .... but am quite OK using a spreadsheet and was going to use this to record what I spend Dad's money on.
Is there a set way that they like you to account for how you've used their money? Any websites giving examples?
Thank you.
Elaine
I am slightly confused by Mike M’s original question.
I find it difficult to imagine any circumstance where an attorney using a Power of Attorney would wish to have income from a pension paid into an account that does not bear the name of the owner of the pension.
My understanding of EPA is that it only enables the attorney to operate the donor’s financial accounts in the way that the owner of the account would wish (if they could do it themselves). Therefore there should be no requirement to have an account that does not bear the owner of the pension’s name.
Mum’s accounts are either solely in her name, (with the bank being aware of the registered EPA), or in her name with my name being included in the title as attorney. Cheques only bear her name, though I sign them.
With regards to keeping accounts for the Court of Protection. Mum is in an EMI Home so has few purchases. All her bills are paid by cheque, and all movements of money from investments are channelled through her current account. I do not keep any complicated spreadsheet. I just write on the cheque stub, and current account statement, what each cheque was for.
Clive
PS. I have an old EPA. I am not a deputy
I find it difficult to imagine any circumstance where an attorney using a Power of Attorney would wish to have income from a pension paid into an account that does not bear the name of the owner of the pension.
My understanding of EPA is that it only enables the attorney to operate the donor’s financial accounts in the way that the owner of the account would wish (if they could do it themselves). Therefore there should be no requirement to have an account that does not bear the owner of the pension’s name.
Mum’s accounts are either solely in her name, (with the bank being aware of the registered EPA), or in her name with my name being included in the title as attorney. Cheques only bear her name, though I sign them.
With regards to keeping accounts for the Court of Protection. Mum is in an EMI Home so has few purchases. All her bills are paid by cheque, and all movements of money from investments are channelled through her current account. I do not keep any complicated spreadsheet. I just write on the cheque stub, and current account statement, what each cheque was for.
Clive
PS. I have an old EPA. I am not a deputy
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CLIVE - Court of Protection
Hello Clive
Please could you tell what one has to do to apply to the Court Of Protection to have EPA since Mum's psychiatrist has refused to be a certificate provider since she considers Mum not to be able to make her own decisions ?!
Many thanks.
Mary
Hello Clive
Please could you tell what one has to do to apply to the Court Of Protection to have EPA since Mum's psychiatrist has refused to be a certificate provider since she considers Mum not to be able to make her own decisions ?!
Many thanks.
Mary
Hi Mary.
Unfortunately you cannot apply for an EPA for another person. You must become a Deputy.
First read the Alzheimer’s Society leaflet 472 about Power of Attorney and how to become a deputy. If in doubt ring the Alzheimer’s Society help line and have a chat. They are very helpful.
Then go to the web site for the Public Guardian and find the information and forms you require.
I believe you require to submit form COP 004 however this is not something I did so I do not have the necessary experience to advice you on this point.
Best of luck
Clive
Unfortunately you cannot apply for an EPA for another person. You must become a Deputy.
First read the Alzheimer’s Society leaflet 472 about Power of Attorney and how to become a deputy. If in doubt ring the Alzheimer’s Society help line and have a chat. They are very helpful.
Then go to the web site for the Public Guardian and find the information and forms you require.
I believe you require to submit form COP 004 however this is not something I did so I do not have the necessary experience to advice you on this point.
Best of luck
Clive
I think we're talking Lasting Power of Attorney now, not Enduring Power of Attorney, which has been replaced since last year for new applications
I have a PS further to what I said and Clive emphasized. I've copied this from the public guardianship site
"What are my duties as an Attorney?
You must act in the best interests of the Donor and consider their needs and wishes as far as possible.
You must not take advantage of the Donor's position to gain any benefit for yourself.
You must keep the Donor's money and property separate from your own and other peoples."
Note that last line.
"What are my duties as an Attorney?
You must act in the best interests of the Donor and consider their needs and wishes as far as possible.
You must not take advantage of the Donor's position to gain any benefit for yourself.
You must keep the Donor's money and property separate from your own and other peoples."
Note that last line.