1. Angry

    Angry Registered User

    Aug 7, 2014
    8
    I'm so mad I need advice from anyone who can help me.
    My poor mum was in a care home and passed away December last year. Just after her death I had to pay the DWP £3k for overpaid Attendance allowance which had been going on for months as they had no record of mum's change of circumstances although I rang to tell them when she went into the care home !!!! Anyway now 5 months after her death, I have received a bill for the overpayment of Pension credit covering 2 years in the sum of £2.5k and they want it paying by next week!!!! My brain is in tatters and I can't think straight. Does pension credit stop when you go into residential care - mum was fully funding and had to sell her house to pay the fees. I'm just so mad that you do what you are supposed to and yet the DWP can still screw you up because of their inability to process information!!!
     
  2. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    OK it's not entirely clear what is going on here. On the one hand you say your mother was fully funded then you say she sold her home to pay for care. I'm guessing that it went something like this: she sold her home, was self-funding for a while and then the LA took over funding? If you are self-funding you keep AA, if you aren't you don't. So I see how that came about. As to the Pension credit, this is payable if you are in a home, but, and this is a big but, if you own a home at the time you enter care, the value of the home at the time you enter starts to be included in your total assets for the purposes of calculating PC (unless it is occupied by a spouse or is in the process of being sold).

    Perhaps you could provide a few more details?

    Edit - I see I have misread "fully funding" as "fully funded" - so I'm guessing she was self-funding? But if that was the case, she should have still received AA. SO that doesn't make much sense either.
     
  3. Pegsdaughter

    Pegsdaughter Registered User

    Oct 7, 2014
    129
    London
    Stop panicking and arrange to see cab for some legal advice. Write to dwp saying you will respond in due course after getting advice. It sounds like a try on to me and I am a retired civil servant. Good luck sue


    Sent from my iPad using Talking Point
     
  4. Angry

    Angry Registered User

    Aug 7, 2014
    8
    Yes mum was self funding - paid every penny herself from her bank account.

    Funny .....I've since thought the DWP could be trying it on. Based on the Attendance Allowance saga - which went on for several months then went to appeal - I ended up actually paying more after the appeal than I did before!!! Like I said to the DWP regarding their staff .... the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Advice defo needed. Thank you.
     
  5. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    If your mother was self-funding she should have been receiving AA so I'm not sure what that was about (except for periods of more than 28 days in hospital) so I'm not sure on what basis you had to pay that back.

    The PC thing though: if she had more that £10000 of assets (including the value of the house after she went into care), for every £500 over that £10k her PC should have been reduced by £1 per week.
     
  6. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,262
    Male
    North Manchester
    The limit for LA assistance is greater than the pension credit limit.

    It looks as if for the purposes of pension credit her capital was assessed as being over the limit (currently £16k), the house would have been included unless it was actually in the process of being sold and when sold the capital would have increased by the proceeds.
     
  7. Angry

    Angry Registered User

    Aug 7, 2014
    8
    Sory to have another moan again but had a look through old stuff last night. I received a letter from DWP in July 2014 advising they were stopping mum's Pension credit payment and I had to fill in a form which was returned and they returned a copy of the POA document to me. I've never heard anything back from them so assumed all was in order.....until now 9 months after communication and 5 months after mum passed away!

    They are now asking for back payment of pension credit from 3/7/12 to 28/7/14 in the sum of £2525.59. this really can't be right. When mum first went into the care home (11/7/12) she was on a deferred payment with the local council until her property was sold as she didn't have enough in her bank to fund herself. In October 2014 her house was sold and we then paid back a chunk of money to the council for the deferred payment (over £10k). Surely she was still entitled to pension credit up until this point? Mum was in hospital before she went into care home, then she had the odd week or so when she had other hospital stays but surely she shouldn't have to pay back every penny received over a 2 year period ??? I'm going to ask them for a breakdown as their letter was very vague - their invoice just gives dates and a total. I wondered if you could assist with advice for me on what to put in the letter etc. I'm just filled with dread having to deal with the DWP again and you get bombarded with duplicate letters etc. after the last episode that went on for months and it ended up them charging me more.
     
  8. Pegsdaughter

    Pegsdaughter Registered User

    Oct 7, 2014
    129
    London
    Please just write and say further to you letter of... I would be grateful for a breakdown of the alleged overpayments so that I can take this to my legal advisor. When this has been received also contact your local mp who will take your case up with the Secretary of State . Do not pay out any money until you have received satisfactory responses that the money really is owed from you mother's estate


    Sent from my iPad using Talking Point
     
  9. Bod

    Bod Registered User

    Aug 30, 2013
    1,182
    My understanding is that the POA ceases with death of the donor.
    Any dealings should then be handled by the executors.
    Should there be no value in the estate, then nothing can be paid.
    You as attorney have no responsibly for estate debts.
    I don't think you as executor, would have a great deal of responsibly either.

    Bod
     
  10. Flake

    Flake Registered User

    Mar 9, 2015
    222
    Ask the DWP for copy of their telephone records. This should be held hopefully on a CD. They do say their calls are recorded and this may be your proof of your call. Worth a try x
     
  11. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,438
    Actually I don't think she was entitled to PC then. Maybe for a period of time when the house was in the process of being sold because that's what the literature says (although I can't find a definition of what is an acceptable time frame for that to happen in), but not automatically. This is because the moment she entered the care home, the house started to be counted as an asset and probably put her way above the PC levels.

    In fact from the dates you have given, that sounds as if they have already "removed" a 3 month period which I assume is what they are counting as "the process of the house being sold". I have no idea why they are stating that it's the period starting 3/7/12 when she didn't enter the home until 7 or 8 days later, but that's just a week. But she wasn't entitled to PC after she entered the home because she owned a house which had value. I'm sorry it's not better news.
     
  12. Pickles53

    Pickles53 Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    2,475
    Radcliffe on Trent
    http://www.inbrief.co.uk/estate-law/executors.htm

    Attached link sets out some circumstances where executors could be liable. To protect against any future claims, we were advised to place an advert in the London Gazette when dealing with my mother's estate. If this was done, it may limit the DWP's entitlement to recover the overpayment. Worth checking out anyway.
     
  13. Angry

    Angry Registered User

    Aug 7, 2014
    8
    Pickles - I was the executor to mum's will and went through the Gazette on the advice of my solicitor and paid him to do so. The notice period for claims was up on the 27/4/15 and the DWP's letter was dated 8/5/15 and received 18/5/15. Monies were only distributed from mum's estate last week!! My solicitor said the DWP still has to be paid providing it's a legitimate claim.

    This shouldn't have happened because I informed them in 2012 of mum's change of circumstances but they had no record. I did ask about a copy of recordings last year but they conveniently didn't have anything on record when I said I rang....just insisted I hadn't notified them. Since then any communication I had was in writing and sent by registered mail/special delivery - more expense I know but peace of mind that they can't wrangle out of saying it wasn't received.
     
  14. nitram

    nitram Registered User

    Apr 6, 2011
    19,262
    Male
    North Manchester
    "...they conveniently didn't have anything on record when I said I rang..."

    Can your phone provider provide a record of numbers called and call duration around the time you made the call?
     

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