DOLs in place

Discussion in 'Welcome and how to use Talking Point' started by Theresalwaystomorrow, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. Theresalwaystomorrow

    Theresalwaystomorrow Registered User

    Dec 23, 2017
    206
    mum recently in nursing home and as a family we’ve had few concerns over her care.
    Now the home is putting DOLs in place because we haven’t got health poa.
    Does this mean the home can keep her there and we cannot even move her to different one? Have they got this monopoly?
    Thanks
     
  2. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    6,668
    Female
    South coast
    A DOLs is nothing to do with POA

    It is routine for people with dementia in a care home to have a DOLs. It just means that it is OK for staff to refuse to allow her outside unaccompanied. My mum had a DOLs, but i could still take her for trips to the park, to a cafe for lunch, or for a walk by the sea front. Its just that she regularly wanted to go out on her own and would have got lost and probably injured, so she wasnt allowed to. Because of this the carehome was depriving her of her liberty and therefore had to have a Deprivation of Liberty Safeguarding order to make it legal. This is standard whether or not there is a POA
     
  3. Theresalwaystomorrow

    Theresalwaystomorrow Registered User

    Dec 23, 2017
    206
    Ah thank you
    So if we’re unhappy with Home but we haven’t got poa, could we move her to different Home? Now DOLS in place
     
  4. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    6,668
    Female
    South coast
    Yes, of course you could - providing that the new home would accept her and if she has LA funding you would need to work with the SW. Any new place will also apply for a DOLs.

    I am wondering why you are unhappy though. Nowhere is perfect. Have you tried working with her current home to resolve the issues?
     
  5. Theresalwaystomorrow

    Theresalwaystomorrow Registered User

    Dec 23, 2017
    206
    Thank you your very helpful.
    Well it’s a bit of a long story over finances which is all in hand but I was just wondering if the home could make her stay there but you’ve answered my question I don’t feel so bad now
     
  6. Sujanne

    Sujanne Registered User

    Aug 10, 2018
    10
    Hi, I'm new to the forum so hope I am doing it right. We are in a similar position. Only we want to bring my dad back home so we can care for him. My mum passed away in June, we nursed her at home. It was her wish and is ours that dad comes back. The reason dad had to go into a home was mum couldn't cope with his dementia as she was ill. There is or was a DOLs in place. Dad is a lot calmer in his self now. Where do we start and who can help us with this. Any advice would be great.
     
  7. nellbelles

    nellbelles Volunteer Host

    Nov 6, 2008
    7,584
    leicester
    Hi @Sujanne welcome to TP
    I would imagine that a starting point would be with SS.
    Have you thought about this deeply?
    It’s a big step and your Dad May be calmer now but would moving him cause him to be even more confused?
     
  8. Sujanne

    Sujanne Registered User

    Aug 10, 2018
    10
     
  9. Sujanne

    Sujanne Registered User

    Aug 10, 2018
    10
    Thank you. Yes it is a big step. But I feel we can do it. Since he had dementia he has been moved four times. We just want to do what's best for dad.
     
  10. canary

    canary Registered User

    Feb 25, 2014
    6,668
    Female
    South coast
    Before you do this find out exactly what your dads care needs are @Sujanne .
    Is he incontinent; does he resist washing/showering/other forms of personal care; how much help does he require getting up/dressing/putting to bed; does he get up and wander around all night; does he have mobility problems; does he sundown; does he become anxious if he is on his own?

    People who have never looked after someone with dementia usually drastically underestimate how hard it is to be on duty 24/7, 7 days a week. Everything (and I mean everything) revolves entirely around the person with dementia. I am having to put my whole life on hold. I would also point out that mum improved considerably once she went into a care home, but this was only because she was in a care home and needed the strict routine of the home and not to have to worry about trying to "fit in" with an ordinary household. If I had brought her back again all the old problems would have reared their ugly head - the nastiness, the accusations of stealing, the paranoia, the wanting to go home, wandering around the streets very inadequately dressed at 2.00am................. the list goes on. I felt that mum moving into her care home was indeed the very best decision I made for her.

    If you still want to go ahead then you will need to convince SS that you are putting in adequate provisions. Have you thought about carers coming in - you will certainly not be able to do it alone - that way leads to carers breakdown.
     
  11. Sujanne

    Sujanne Registered User

    Aug 10, 2018
    10
     
  12. Sujanne

    Sujanne Registered User

    Aug 10, 2018
    10
    Sorry, having trouble replying. Dad has had dementia for several years, we looked after him at home till mum found it too much. My brother and I nursed my mum through her cancer, she died in my arms. We did our best for her and we just want to do the best for dad. He has been in four homes, the last but one was closed with very little notice. He seems to settle very quickly, but still says he wants to come home. It looks like he will have to move from this one anyway. I just want him home with us, he won't have to move again. He is incontinent, I understand what this will involve. We had a fantastic team with my mum, our GP and DN are lovely. We are looking to hire some extra help too. There are four family to also help. We drew up a list of things we need to put into place. I today contacted Admiral Nurse to ask for advice and she has given me some guidance. He has a wheelchair like mum. He cannot walk but he can feed his self, albeit pureed . I was confused as to who to ask first. He has partial NHS funding. Thank you for your advice and replying to me.
     
  13. Theresalwaystomorrow

    Theresalwaystomorrow Registered User

    Dec 23, 2017
    206
    Hi sujanne
    Please keep us updated on outcome.
    We feel the same with mum, yes it would be extreamly difficult but tbh what iv seen in the home she would get better care at home. They have too many to see to in the home a very short ratio of carers to residents!
    If you have enough family and you can do a rota it could work
     
  14. Kevinl

    Kevinl Registered User

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,369
    Salford
    @Sujanne I think people misunderstand what a DOLS is, this thread is even titled "DOLs" capitals for the Deprivation Of Liberty but lower case for the most important bit Safeguarding.
    For their own safety some people need to be in a home, but the home has to have a legal right to keep them there if they express a wish to leave.
    Children in school can be made to remain on the school's property against their wishes, this is a deprivation of their liberty, people under arrest or in prison are deprived of their liberty but all this is covered by various laws allowing for people to be kept somewhere against their wishes.
    The OP asks "Have they got this monopoly?" Well, the answer is no, it gives the home the legal right to keep that person there against their wishes, nothing more.
    When my wife was under a section 3 and in a secure assessment unit I was still allowed to take her out, some people weren't considered safe to be let out but after a few months she was and being sectioned I could take her out shopping if I wanted.
    If you tell the home you want to take your Dad home then they will have to contact social services so they can assess you are taking him somewhere he'll be safe, not to try and stop you but because they have a duty of care to ensure he is being taken somewhere that can meet his needs. If the move was from one care home to another then there wouldn't be an issue but to cover themselves they'd want to know that social services agreed and that the situation he was going into was suitable.
    To save care home fees some families could take someone out of care then neglect them just to save money so it's all there for his safeguarding as a vulnerable adult.
    There's no reason why someone under a DoLS can't be taken home, a few of the residents in care with my wife go and stay with their children at the weekend sometime usually Friday night to Sunday night and you are asked to "tell" the home if you're doing this, but you are telling then not asking for their permission so unless the home believe the person might be at risk there shouldn't be an issue, that said I believe some homes don't like you doing it, tough!
    K
     
  15. Sujanne

    Sujanne Registered User

    Aug 10, 2018
    10
    Thanks for your reply. Good information. We did have dad at home for a long while. We will talk with the home and see what is possible.
     
  16. Sujanne

    Sujanne Registered User

    Aug 10, 2018
    10
     
  17. Sujanne

    Sujanne Registered User

    Aug 10, 2018
    10
    Will do. We are a close family. I am sure we can do this for dad, I know it will be hard. We looked after mum, yes it was tiring, but it was the right thing for her to be with us. Our local GP and nurses were wonderful.
     

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