1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

  1. EmJ

    EmJ Registered User

    Sep 26, 2007
    230
    Scotland
    Hi all,

    Direct payment question:

    I know that the social worker decides the amount of hours and the amount of money you get. It is also only for "assessed needs".

    I got information on direct payments and it says that you can top up the hours yourself with your own money. Can you only top up on assessed needs?

    The assessed needs, seem to be the problem here! :confused: What a family may see as a need may not necessarily be what the SW sees as an "assessed" need! Why does everything have to be so complicated?

    Any help would be much appreciated,

    EmJ :)
     
  2. Short girl

    Short girl Registered User

    Mar 22, 2008
    60
    Might be able to answer this.
    You can 'top up' the direct payment, but i would suggest that a separate account is needed for this. This is what I've advised people - ie. the assessed eligible needs is for personal care, access to food and drink - critical, substantive (what most councils do) under Fair Access to Care they have X amount of hours. Should you wish to top this up to pay the person or agency to do say, cleaning which generally depending upon where you live is not considered an eligible need, then I advised them to pay this from a separate account.
    I do know of people who do top up DP account, sometimes it's because (normally with Agencies) the rates will exceed the Council's DP hourly rate - particularly when you are looking at unsocial hours and weekends etc.
    Might explain this a bit. Wonder what will happen when they bring in Personal Budgets - not done my training yet.
     
  3. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,419
    Emj - Forgive me, perhaps I'm misunderstanding the question but: are you asking if you can use your own money to pay for services that have not been assessed as being required? Because if so, the answer is of course yes. Whether you do or do not have direct payments, no one can dictate to you how you use your own money. Now if you were attempting to spend down assets in order to make the person eligible for some support that would otherwise not be forthcoming, well that would be unwise. But purchasing additional services? Of course you can. Short girl has given you some good "accounting advice" though.
     
  4. lesmisralbles

    lesmisralbles Account Closed

    Nov 23, 2007
    5,543
    Please, can you all stop talking double dutch

    I have been told that I as Ron's carer can apply for an allowance. I am his wife. But I do all the 24hr caring for Ron.
    I do not mean carer's allowance, that I cannot get, I have now retired and receive my own pension.
    As I have said before, I would like extra money, this would be to help Ron, in the way we see fit. Not, to accept what is on offer from the social services.
    How do I do this.
    Anyone ???
    Thank's muchly
    BarbX:)
     
  5. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,419
    Barb : as the system is currently set up you are only potentially eligible for direct payments if you're eligible for social services help. As you know, if you're of pensionable age you can't receive the carers allowance, and I assume that you have looked at pension credit? It is possible that when the new system of Personal Budgets are put in place that you may be eligible. Theoretically these personal budgets will be less controlled - if you get the money you can do what you want with it, but I have seen nothing to indicate that people will be eligible for this if they are not already eligible.

    Edited to add: the only other allowance I'm aware of is Attendance Allowance. If you have been told you can apply for something else I would suggest you go back to that person and ask exactly what.
     
  6. lesmisralbles

    lesmisralbles Account Closed

    Nov 23, 2007
    5,543
    Took our pension credit away

    I retired one year early, because of Ron, from that date I received a carer's allowance.
    As soon as I reached retirement age, and started receiving my pension, pension credit for Ron stopped, as did my carer's allowance.
    Ron has his OAP and his small pension from his employment. I receive a OAP, and as I worked for 45 year's - it is not good, but not bad. Put it this way, if I lived on my own, I could not manage. Ron get's full attendance allowance, because of his Parkinson's, and nightime need's etc.
    I was lead to beleive, that I can apply, if I have a carer's assesment for a direct payment. This will enable me to get help with looking after Ron, without using the social services. This mean's we, Ron and I have choice.
    That is what I am asking ???? Why do the various dept's make it so difficult.
    Help please.
    Barb X:)
     
  7. heartbroken

    heartbroken Registered User

    Feb 17, 2008
    747
    derbyshire
    Barb
    Edna get attendance allowance but also gets driect payments this was set up because like you they didn't won't home help etc from the socail services. Edna had a assesment done by the sw he then did all the paper work etc care plan and filled in all the forms to get the payment. I go in to help dad 21 hours a week and get paid, you can have anyone you want a friend or family if you don't have anyone you can advertise and pick who you want, then tell them what work you want help with to give you a break, we love it as some days I go more than others as long as it totals up to 21hours each week. hope you can understand this if not please ask questions
     
  8. lesmisralbles

    lesmisralbles Account Closed

    Nov 23, 2007
    5,543
    Hi Heartbroken

    It is the direct payment's I am am concerned about.
    I want the choice, we, Ron and I want the choice in the care that he get's
    Thank you for your reply
    Barb & Ron X:)
     
  9. heartbroken

    heartbroken Registered User

    Feb 17, 2008
    747
    derbyshire
    with the direct payment you have all the choices its your say who comes into your home and what they do, yes the sw gives you a care plan but if you don't agree with it say so and it will be changed.
    all dad wanted was someone to watch Edna go shopping with her and to give him some adult conversation and thats what he gets. please don't worry about driect payments they are flexible and with use work very well.
     
  10. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,721
    Kent
    Would Direct Payments allow Ron to have his massages and go swimming?
     
  11. lesmisralbles

    lesmisralbles Account Closed

    Nov 23, 2007
    5,543
    Silvia

    Would that it could.
    But thank you for asking.
    And thank you for remembering, that is what RON WANT'S
    Love Barb X:)
     
  12. heartbroken

    heartbroken Registered User

    Feb 17, 2008
    747
    derbyshire
    I would think they would pay for someone to go with him as it gives you respite, just the same as me taking Edna out away from dad a while.
     
  13. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,721
    Kent
    I certainly think it`s worth a try. If you don`t ask, you don`t get. ;)
     
  14. ROSEANN

    ROSEANN Registered User

    Oct 1, 2006
    909
    staffordshire
    Sylvia
    I get Direct Paymentsfor myself and my husband we both had to have a seperate assessment.
    John has his to pay for a sitter while I go out while mine I can use to go for a meal or have my nails done or help in the garden.
    Mine I was told are for the wellbeing of the carer, so depending on what your council allows the answer about the massage is yes.
    The only thing is all the councils have their own rules so worth asking
    Mine work very well for us.
    Roseann
     
  15. Grannie G

    Grannie G Volunteer Moderator

    Apr 3, 2006
    68,721
    Kent
    Gosh Roseanne, thank you. I will look into this immediately.
     
  16. barraf

    barraf Registered User

    Mar 27, 2004
    308
    Huddersfield
    Hello EMJ

    As I understand it anyone who is assessed by SS as requiring help can ask for Direct Payments instead of the usual home care etc. They will have to be assessed as to their needs and the amount of help required.

    They can then have a financial assessment to determine the amount of money they receive. I believe you get a certain amount whatever your circumstances, which can increase on sliding scale depending upon your income and savings. This is the patient and not the carer. You have to set up a separate bank account which is monitored regularly by DP staff.

    That is how it worked for us anyway, I use it to pay Crossroads so I get some free time for myself.

    Hope this is of some help.

    Cheers Barraf
     
  17. EmJ

    EmJ Registered User

    Sep 26, 2007
    230
    Scotland
    Thanks shortgirl, Jenniferpa, barraf & everyone else who has commented.

    Your advice is very helpful. I can always rely on people here to give me easy to understand information. :)

    I do think it all depends on the local authority really and their rules.

    In some areas there is a lack of knowledge of how much support some people with dementia require particularly when eating. A meals delivery service is good but may not meet the needs sufficiently.

    It is good to read about people's positive experiences of direct payments.

    EmJ :)
     
  18. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,419
    You've got that right: "I do think it all depends on the local authority really and their rules"

    Some LAs will not offer direct payments to dementia sufferers because of their lack of capacity while others do. My nasty suspicious mind wonders whether those LAs that don't have a cadre of on-staff support workers, while the other rely on private agencies. It may not be that, and the rules will be changing at some point, but that's how it stands at the moment. Wouldn't it be nice if there was consistency?
     

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