This is more or less what happens already, except the one's license is renewed yearly.
Dementia and driving
- Thread starter Norrms
- Start date
But you ARE making a moral judgement based on your limited experience. The VAST majority of dementias do not "change suddenly - That's why the system currently requires annual re-validation.The thing is, will you recognise when you become unsafe to drive? Inevitably that time will come but you don't know when, and that is the problem. I appreciate it takes away a lot of your independence, but better safe than sorry. People who have epilepsy are probably excellent drivers but because they don't know when they will have the next seizure, they cannot drive unless they haven't had one for (I think) at least a year. Dementia can change suddenly and I would hate for you to give up driving only after an accident
It isn't a moral judgement.
Banning everybody may be the easy option, but it is certainly not the fair or compassionate option.
If you can show me ANY statistical evidence that shows people with dementia are significantly more likely to be involved in accidents I might change my view. But search as I might, I can find none. All I find is hearsay and folklore.
Yet you want to consign me to the scrapheap. Based on a hunch?
Many of us are regularly assessed and are perfectly competent drivers. People with dementia are individuals and must be treated as such.
These generic, blanket bans you speak of are insulting and insensitive.
I suspect that people over 70 are more prone to accidents than those who are younger. Should we then ban everyone over 70 from driving? Of course not.
There are currently over 200 recognised types of dementia. Many people are able to drive safely for a decade or more post diagnosis.
It's about time we stopped this fashion of putting people into generic pidgeon-holes and started dealing with them as individuals. Human beings with worth.
Don't write us off.
I'm sorry you feel that way. No one wants to consign you to the scrapheap and I certainly didn't say that. Many dementias do change suddenly - people who knew where they were one day find the next day that they do not. Whilst an assessment can tell you that you drove perfectly that day, it is quite ridiculous to then say, 'And that means you will drive perfectly for the next year.'
Dementia is cognitive impairment and it is progressive. Would you let a surgeon with dementia operate on you? Would you fly with a pilot who had dementia?
My husband has just be diagnosed as having Altzheimers. He was assessed by the Memory Assessment Service, and told he could volunteer to be assessed for his 'driving ability' (which is free); this could help to reassure both of us that he is still capable of driving safely. However, if he 'fails' this test, he will have to surrender his licence. We have notified our 'car insurance company', and filled in the required medical information form for DVLA. I know he is capable 'mechanically' to drive (knows how to operate a vehicle) but his attention span is not what it was. As a passenger I notice he doesn't always brake as early as perhaps he should; doesn't always notice the 'red lights'. He has never had an accident, and enjoyed driving. We limit the distances we travel, and only do short journeys in areas we know well (this was also suggested by the Consultant we saw). We await the appointment for the driving test. I know there are days when he is 'more alert' than others - this has nothing to do with the medication he is on. At the same time, I suspect that 'lacking attention' can also be applied to drivers who do not have dementia. This is a difficult, and emotive area for discussion. Logicaly, I don't know how any driver can be tested one day, given the okay to drive, and know they will never have an accident during the next 12/24/36 months. It's a tricky situation.
Mum never learnt to drive so at least this was a problem that I didn't have to face however, as a pedestrian, it took just weeks for her to go from able to cross a main road, to someone who would just step into the road with absolutely no awareness.
Thankfully when this happened, it was a quiet road, nothing coming and me there as a witness. It was enough, more than enough, she never went out alone again.
Thankfully when this happened, it was a quiet road, nothing coming and me there as a witness. It was enough, more than enough, she never went out alone again.
I do not think of it as a blanket ban at all. My husband had the choice of doing the assessment or not. The consultant was required by law to refer him for assessment but didn’t make any judgement. Whether he passed his test or not was entirely up to his skill or lack of it in the assessment process. His assessment was a little more expensive because he wanted to have a couple of driving lessons prior and I think that indicates he had some concerns already that he was going to fail.
I think relatives also use the cost of the assessment to suggest that dad or mum should surrender their licences because they are aware that they are not safe to drive.
People here pay for their lessons and for the assessment when they get their very first licence to make sure they have the skills to drive. I don’t see why someone in a later time of life shouldn’t pay to be sure that they too are safe drivers.
The UK system for this is dreadful from another angle too. My OH was diagnosed with VD , around 2.5 mths ago after being taken into hospital with confusion , If he had been discharged with an official letter saying his driving was stopped until tests proved he was ok to be on the road , (albeit never in reality ) ,my life would have been so much easier , but he wasnt told he had dementia or that he couldnt drive (they told ME he couldnt) and since discharge, he has, , at regular intervals ,made my life hell as its me who has had to try and prevent him doing the thing he loves. After the angry shouting and swearing and tantrums, he demands I show him written proof of why he cant drive , and when I cant he rages on about how he knows the DVLA cant cancel his licence just like that without informing him in writing , SO, therefore Im the evil cow who has engineered a conspiracy to take his car away . I obviously had hidden the keys , and in retaliation , he started to hide everything he knew I constantly needed like keys, diary, banking notebook , letters, phone, leads, address book , comb and so on . I had to carry some things round all the time , and hide others , unhiding them without being spotted, when I needed to use them . This went on till it was making me feel ill and stressed.
I believe if I had had a letter as described above . a lot of the viciousness constantly directed at me, wouldnt have occured and I would have found looking after him a lot easier .
I believe if I had had a letter as described above . a lot of the viciousness constantly directed at me, wouldnt have occured and I would have found looking after him a lot easier .
We’ve had the DVLA letter for over a year, but it hasn’t stopped the accusations and the tantrums. His response is “what do they know” or “that’s an old letter , I’m sure there’s a more recent one”, this is from a man that worked for the Police.
The process certainly made my life easier as it wasn’t me that had to tell OH about not driving anymore.
I have some strong opinions on this. On diagnosis I was told not to drive, and subsequently the dvla revoked my licence. But I appealed, and after being tested the DVLA accepted I was safe to drive.
There are some people who know they’re not safe, and who give up their licence voluntarily. But there are some who are safe to drive. What is needed is a consistent approach from the medic and the DVLA.
There are some people who know they’re not safe, and who give up their licence voluntarily. But there are some who are safe to drive. What is needed is a consistent approach from the medic and the DVLA.
I can see why you'd say that but it's just not that simple! Everyone with dementia is different and so are their abilities. People are diagnosed at all different stages of the disease so what is appropriate for someone in the very early stages may not be appropriate for someone older, more infirm or further on with their dementia.
People have to stop driving for all sorts of medical conditions. The bottom line is this: if you are diagnosed with dementia you are cognitively impaired to a measurable degree. That should disqualify you from driving. You may have the mechanics mastered but your cognition is impaired and that's not a good way to drive, is it? If you knew someone had dementia, would you let them drive your children, even if it appeared their driving was OK?
@WJG The DVLA said you were safe to drive on the day of your assessment. No one can say if you will be safe to drive tomorrow.
I'm sorry if I sound hard or mean but I just can't see how someone who is cognitively impaired can be certain of driving safely. Yes, I accept there are all sorts of bad drivers on the roads - not much we can do about that, but even more reason why you shouldn't drive with dementia really, because it's about road awareness and other drivers as much as driving the vehicle. As I said earlier on this thread, how far should we go in ensuring people with dementia retain their human rights and are not prevented from doing things they can still do? Pilots, surgeons, presidents, people in the armed forces, teachers, judges, bus drivers, you name it. Should these people be allowed to continue till they do something really dangerous that 'proves' they must stop?
@Arthur ASCII , @WJG and others - do you think that would be a better system?
Driving is always a highly emotional topic. My mum was furious when she had to give up her drivers licence and refused to for a while. In the end I had to rescind it because my dad couldn't bring himself to do it, knowing that it's a break with a persons independence and mobility.
Each person is different and therefore their abilities will be different, which means a consistent or standardised approach is unlikely. There is also a stark difference between someone who is cognitively unimpaired but a bad driver and someone who is cognitively impaired. The first has the ability to change a decision quickly, the second may not be able to make a quick decision when seconds count. The problem is not that PWD should not be allowed to drive, but knowing at what point they should not drive -hence the DVLA test. Its a contentious issue and one that is ongoing.
The solution is the self-driving car, but then remembering the point of the journey might be the next problem
Each person is different and therefore their abilities will be different, which means a consistent or standardised approach is unlikely. There is also a stark difference between someone who is cognitively unimpaired but a bad driver and someone who is cognitively impaired. The first has the ability to change a decision quickly, the second may not be able to make a quick decision when seconds count. The problem is not that PWD should not be allowed to drive, but knowing at what point they should not drive -hence the DVLA test. Its a contentious issue and one that is ongoing.
The solution is the self-driving car, but then remembering the point of the journey might be the next problem
I agree, some of the posts on this thread remind me of the fox who lost his tail in a trap and tried to persuade all the other animals to give theirs up in solidarity!
Just pondering this myself. My elderly father has no formal diagnosis but has spent the last three weeks in hospital whilst we refused for him to come home without various assessments anyway to cut it short he can hardly stand up sometimes and his cognitive reasoning etc has declined from his last tests. I really do not want him to drive. I feel so strongly. He only drives to three places twice a week if that but before he went to hospital he kept mentioning that they might not let him drive which no-one had said. I began to wonder if he actually didn't feel safe and wanted someone to say you cannot drive. My siblings are keen not to upset him too much after his hospital stay but I want to just say the hospital have said no driving for six weeks. The six weeks of course will have no meaning as such. There is no way we will get him to go for an assessment and no one wants to actually test his driving out as a passenger (family ) so what does that tell you.
Hi Serena
I am inclined to agree with you and would definitely go for "hospital have said no driving for six weeks", which of course would never end!
As soon as I was given the diagnosis of mild mixed dementia I handed in my driving licence. I totally agree that it is not safe to carry on driving safely. Since I gave it up I tested myself whilst passenger with my wife driving and several times I have been confused that could have led to a accident. Definitely not worth the risk on todays roads.
Hello Defiance. I did the same thing. I had at least 3 instances where I knew I was making mistakes, So I gave my licence up straight away. I thought I had dementia for a few months before asking for a scan. My husband was in a care home and I needed to drive really, but I started walking to the home for a few weeks. Then my lovely husband died suddenly. After the funeral I got the scan and was diagnosed with Frontotemporal Dementia. So I am sure you did the right thing. Good luck for the future.
Having originally, given up my licence in 2018 due to having seizures. I am taking two Lamotrigine 100 mg a day one morning & evening, for life. After speaking to my Neurologist, he asked why I hadn’t reapplied for my driving license. Having Vascular Dementia, I naturally thought there would be no chance.
Went to see my doctor who filled in the necessary paperwork work, took my blood pressure. Asked me a few questions, to test my memory, Now waiting for the DVLA to return my driving license.
Went to see my doctor who filled in the necessary paperwork work, took my blood pressure. Asked me a few questions, to test my memory, Now waiting for the DVLA to return my driving license.
