Dads care home threatening to evict him due to family members behavior

[Rachelx88]

Hi everyone, I’m just wondering if anyone else has experienced something similar or has any advice.

My dad has advanced dementia and has been a resident in a care home for almost a year.
My sibling has made numerous claims against the care home which have been investigated by the local authorities safe guarding team and no wrong doing found.
She has also challenged the DOLS which is in place stating that he has mental capacity to make his own decisions, which he does not.
A best interests meeting took place in as she wanted to take Dad living with her but it was deemed not in his best interest to leave the care facility.

His placement is permanent and they have previously stated that they can facilitate his needs up until end of life.
I have always had a good relationship with the care home staff and feel he is well cared for there.

My sibling has now made an accusation against the care home saying that my dad has been assaulted by one of the Carers because he told her so. As stated earlier, he doesn’t have all capacity and has no awareness of where he is etc.
There is no evidence to suggest that it may be true however my sibling confronted the staff member and made accusations.
The care home manager has now stated that she may be looking to evict him due to the constant accusations and unsavory behavior towards staff from my sibling.

I am beside myself as he will likely end up in a dementia plus unit and potentially out of borough if they do go ahead with this suggestion to remove him.

Surely he has some rights that they would be violating as he hasn’t done anything to warrant being kicked out. It it purely because they are fed up of the constant accusations and confrontational behavior by visitors.

I just don’t know which way to turn and I am beside myself with worry as to what this will mean for him moving forwards.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated

 

[SAP]

Does anyone have an LPA for your dad? How is his care paid for? Is there a social worker involved?
If he was placed by social services then they will need to know about this situation.
I’m wondering if your sibling is in denial about your dads condition. Does she fully understand what his needs now are, if she did she would not want to be caring for him on her own.
Care homes can have the last say in who they will and won’t care for and if they feel their staff are being harassed by family, they may feel that is justifiable reason to end the contract. Whoever issued the DOLs may also need to know as your dad cannot make his own decisions as to where he would be able to go.
Maybe there needs to be a meeting with a third party , like a social worker or someone from mental health services for older people ( or whoever issued the DOLs ) , you and your sister and the home, to iron out what the issue is, what your dads care needs are and how the home is meeting those needs.

 

[canary]

It seems a shame that your dad is likely to be given notice because of your sisters behaviour.
Its a pity that she couldnt be barred instead.

 

[Sarasa]

Welcome to Dementia Talking Point @Rachelx88.
This seems quite a complex situation so it might be a good idea to chat things through with the Support Line tomorrow.

Dementia Support Line

If you need dementia support, we’re here for you. Get personalised information, support and advice by calling us on 0333 150 3456.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

I hope you get this resolved soon, as it doesn't sound in your dad's best interests to move him.

 

[Rachelx88]

Does anyone have an LPA for your dad? How is his care paid for? Is there a social worker involved?
If he was placed by social services then they will need to know about this situation.
I’m wondering if your sibling is in denial about your dads condition. Does she fully understand what his needs now are, if she did she would not want to be caring for him on her own.
Care homes can have the last say in who they will and won’t care for and if they feel their staff are being harassed by family, they may feel that is justifiable reason to end the contract. Whoever issued the DOLs may also need to know as your dad cannot make his own decisions as to where he would be able to go.
Maybe there needs to be a meeting with a third party , like a social worker or someone from mental health services for older people ( or whoever issued the DOLs ) , you and your sister and the home, to iron out what the issue is, what your dads care needs are and how the home is meeting those needs.

I have LPA for dad, his care is now funded by CHC as his care needs are so high.
The home is arranging another best interests meeting with the social worker.
I’m just praying they don’t decide to terminate his placement but it has been said by staff that it well may be the case.

They stated that they feel whatever they do it just is never good enough for my sibling.

When looking for a placement last time many EMI homes wouldnt touch him so it’s quite harrowing to think where he may end up if he does lose this placement due to no fault of his own.

My sibling is absolutely in denial and cannot accept the situation for what it is.
To see a loved one in care is the last thing that anyone wants but unfortunately happens to thousands of people.

 

[Scarlet Lady]

If you have LPA, @Rachelx88 , then you should be calling the shots. I understand that the care home management is upset and angry over ‘interference’ by your sister, but you need to make it clear to both them and her that you are running the show here. It is a delicate situation, and ideally you’d want family to be on the same page, but if that’s not possible, then the person whose opinions count is you.

 

[Rachelx88]

If you have LPA, @Rachelx88 , then you should be calling the shots. I understand that the care home management is upset and angry over ‘interference’ by your sister, but you need to make it clear to both them and her that you are running the show here. It is a delicate situation, and ideally you’d want family to be on the same page, but if that’s not possible, then the person whose opinions count is you.

That’s the thing, me and my sibling are estranged due to the ongoing issues with the malicious claims plus past disagreements. The relationship is now untenable despite my best efforts to be civil for the sake of dad. It became abusive and for my own mental health I had to cease personal contact.

Although I have LPA I unfortunately cannot control her behavior towards staff or stop her from filing malicious complaints to safeguarding or social services.
I have queried this with the authorities to see if we have to continue to jump through these hoops every time she makes a claim. They are aware of what she is like now but they said they have a duty to investigate every complaint regardless of if it is malicious or not.

The care home have suggested me stopping contact between her and dad however this would emotionally not be good for dad as it is still his daughter and he does still know who we are.
She poses no threat to him in terms of physical/verbal abuse so to stop contact would be unlawful and likely end up in the court of protection.

Im waiting to hear back from a solicitor for advice on how to challenge the decision to withdraw the placement if it does come to an eviction.

 

[SAP]

You say she poses no threat to your dad but he is under threat of eviction due to her chosen behaviour. I’m so sorry that you are having to endure this on top of the heartbreak of having your dad with this dreadful disease. If he gets moved to some other place, it may be miles away and then neither of you will be able to see him.
I have moved my mum away from my sibling for many reasons the main one being it was in mums best interest and as I have nothing to do with my sibling, mum was my priority. There are no easy answers, I hope you find some peace with this.

 

[Weasell]

What a sad situation for you and your father. You say .’ It it purely because they are fed up of the constant accusations and confrontational behaviour by visitors. ‘
The problem is that it is a bit more complicated than that.

Let’s look at the problem from the point of view of the staff.
This may not be the policy where he is cared for, but it is what happens where I work. I give it as an example, due to the fact not everyone realises what happens when an organisation has a policy of taking allegations very seriously.

If someone were to make an accusation about me I am removed from post. I need to make up my hours Monday to Friday at head office and not do my 24/ 7 rota as planned. If I have childcare arranged then my whole life is turned upside down. Despite the fact the whole staff team will know I am innocent it will likely be up to eight weeks before it is proven.

When you are ‘ good staff’ you know your value. I am sorry but I will confess I think some would refuse to care your father, the risk is too great. If management say ‘ but you must’ they will simply go and apply for another job! No big deal at the moment.

From the point of view of the manager.
CQC will be informed of the complaint. There is an old saying ‘ no smoke without fire’ has this the potential to make them think hard about the next rating? Is an ‘needs improvement’ coming my way ?’
Are my staff thinking of leaving? Good staff can simply skip into another job at the moment.

Older wiser staff sometimes discover an ailment that keeps them out of the workplace for a few weeks until a risky situation explodes, then it’s safe to return. To cover the sick staff I need to pay agency staff. If I blame your father for the turn of events, and look at the costings, it’s actually costing me money to look after him.

If even one staff obtains another post because of this then the recruitment and training costs me even more money.

None of this is your fathers fault but the reason you have posted is you want to know what to do ? My solution would be simple, book an appointment with the manager and ask them ‘ What can I do to ensure you keep my father’? You may be able to negotiate something? It so sad that someone with dementia should have these extra problems to contend with.

 

[Rachelx88]

What a sad situation for you and your father. You say .’ It it purely because they are fed up of the constant accusations and confrontational behaviour by visitors. ‘
The problem is that it is a bit more complicated than that.

Let’s look at the problem from the point of view of the staff.
This may not be the policy where he is cared for, but it is what happens where I work. I give it as an example, due to the fact not everyone realises what happens when an organisation has a policy of taking allegations very seriously.

If someone were to make an accusation about me I am removed from post. I need to make up my hours Monday to Friday at head office and not do my 24/ 7 rota as planned. If I have childcare arranged then my whole life is turned upside down. Despite the fact the whole staff team will know I am innocent it will likely be up to eight weeks before it is proven.

When you are ‘ good staff’ you know your value. I am sorry but I will confess I think some would refuse to care your father, the risk is too great. If management say ‘ but you must’ they will simply go and apply for another job! No big deal at the moment.

From the point of view of the manager.
CQC will be informed of the complaint. There is an old saying ‘ no smoke without fire’ has this the potential to make them think hard about the next rating? Is an ‘needs improvement’ coming my way ?’
Are my staff thinking of leaving? Good staff can simply skip into another job at the moment.

Older wiser staff sometimes discover an ailment that keeps them out of the workplace for a few weeks until a risky situation explodes, then it’s safe to return. To cover the sick staff I need to pay agency staff. If I blame your father for the turn of events, and look at the costings, it’s actually costing me money to look after him.

If even one staff obtains another post because of this then the recruitment and training costs me even more money.

None of this is your fathers fault but the reason you have posted is you want to know what to do ? My solution would be simple, book an appointment with the manager and ask them ‘ What can I do to ensure you keep my father’? You may be able to negotiate something? It so sad that someone with dementia should have these extra problems to contend with.

I absolutely understand why the staff are fed up with the behaviour. I am also at my wits end with it all as on top of the allegations to the authorities I am also being slandered for “throwing him in a home” which couldnt be further from the truth.
It broke me to place him into care but I have a young family to care and provide for so there was no other viable option.

I’m prepared to beg the management to keep him, I’m just hoping to find some sound legal advice in the event that they refuse to see if there is anything we can do to challenge it.

I also suggested to the manager the possibility of maybe placing a camera in his room. Not for my benefit but more for them in the event of any further accusations. Maybe that way the staff would feel more protected against such allegations. I wouldn’t even mind if it was just the care home that had access to the footage as to not deprive him of his dignity.
I’m just desperate for them to keep him there as it is a good care home and the visiting arrangements are the best around. You can go in whenever you like so he does have lent you contact with family.

 

[Weasell]

I absolutely understand why the staff are fed up with the behaviour. I am also at my wits end with it all as on top of the allegations to the authorities I am also being slandered for “throwing him in a home” which couldnt be further from the truth.
It broke me to place him into care but I have a young family to care and provide for so there was no other viable option.

I’m prepared to beg the management to keep him, I’m just hoping to find some sound legal advice in the event that they refuse to see if there is anything we can do to challenge it.

I also suggested to the manager the possibility of maybe placing a camera in his room. Not for my benefit but more for them in the event of any further accusations. Maybe that way the staff would feel more protected against such allegations. I wouldn’t even mind if it was just the care home that had access to the footage as to not deprive him of his dignity.
I’m just desperate for them to keep him there as it is a good care home and the visiting arrangements are the best around. You can go in whenever you like so he does have lent you contact with family.

No one will judge you for putting him in a home on this forum.

Many have been through the application process for CHC and know exactly how complex and plentiful a persons needs must be to qualify.
Some of the stories of seriously unwell people being turned down are heartbreaking.
So we realise the enormity of what you have on your plate at the moment.

 

[doingmybest1]

Hi Rachelx88
It's interesting you've posted this because my brother and I are in a similar but slightly different situation.
We share absolutely everything every day regarding Mum's care now that she's in a care home from October.
We've raised many issues we've found by email, and when seeing Mum with the care home.
Obviously we were stressed to discover that the care home weren't undressing Mum and dressing her appropriately for bed, we've now discovered she is now going to bed with her day clothes on. Also we were visiting and her clothes were soiled because when going for a poo she couldn't pull up her clothes so they were soiled, but the care home staff allowed her to wear those clothes despite having poo stains. There's more besides.
We've now been told we'll be banned from seeing our Mum despite having full LPA because we are "abusive" to their staff.
We weren't abusive but we did question the care home managers based on our experience of Mum's care.
Seems the care home now have decided to use our "behaviour" as a reason to call us in to question.
I was with no notice called by the Management team when I visited Mum to see them. They raised this issue of "abuse" of their staff and called in their staff to give evidence to me evidence of the "abuse" with me there and them telling me how they felt about when I questioned their care of my Mum.
I was more than confused at the time, I hadn't been told this was a formal meeting to complain against me, and when I explained my issues, the care staff just said -- "you've said it in the wrong way and caused me major offence and demeaned me".
I was faced with care home staff telling me that I hadn't used the right words when approaching their staff and that I had been guilty of bullying.
The issues of Mum's care didn't even feature.
It really hurt me emotionally for days after. I put my Mum into care to be looked after and when I raised issues with her care I was being told it was me that was a problem.
I've now been told that I will be banned from seeing my Mum by the care home manager who says "we have a no bullying policy in place".
Perhaps your sister is in the same loop we're in.
We've raised concerns but it's been tuned back on us by the care home that we're the issue not the care that's being provided which we've raised concerns about.
We did our research -- did GCQ results etc -- top home but our experience is now such we're looking at moving Mum to another home.
Mum has frontal lobe dementia so it means she can't communicate her sentences are all rubbish unless you know what she's been doing etc day to day. But her main brain is still their although there are elements of dementia -- short term memory, understanding are still there.
Sadly Mum is in a situation where she herself knows this is happening to her. She poo'ed her jumper - knew it had happened - told the carers -- but they just said "doesn't matter". Mum said it does matter -- but they keep dressing her in the same poo'ed stained jumper every day although she has 6 other jumpers in her wardrobe.
I get your frustration with your sibling but maybe it's not her. All not all her fault. She maybe like us - we're trying raise issues/concerns but we're the bad guys.
Wish you all the best.

 

[Rachelx88]

Hi Rachelx88
It's interesting you've posted this because my brother and I are in a similar but slightly different situation.
We share absolutely everything every day regarding Mum's care now that she's in a care home from October.
We've raised many issues we've found by email, and when seeing Mum with the care home.
Obviously we were stressed to discover that the care home weren't undressing Mum and dressing her appropriately for bed, we've now discovered she is now going to bed with her day clothes on. Also we were visiting and her clothes were soiled because when going for a poo she couldn't pull up her clothes so they were soiled, but the care home staff allowed her to wear those clothes despite having poo stains. There's more besides.
We've now been told we'll be banned from seeing our Mum despite having full LPA because we are "abusive" to their staff.
We weren't abusive but we did question the care home managers based on our experience of Mum's care.
Seems the care home now have decided to use our "behaviour" as a reason to call us in to question.
I was with no notice called by the Management team when I visited Mum to see them. They raised this issue of "abuse" of their staff and called in their staff to give evidence to me evidence of the "abuse" with me there and them telling me how they felt about when I questioned their care of my Mum.
I was more than confused at the time, I hadn't been told this was a formal meeting to complain against me, and when I explained my issues, the care staff just said -- "you've said it in the wrong way and caused me major offence and demeaned me".
I was faced with care home staff telling me that I hadn't used the right words when approaching their staff and that I had been guilty of bullying.
The issues of Mum's care didn't even feature.
It really hurt me emotionally for days after. I put my Mum into care to be looked after and when I raised issues with her care I was being told it was me that was a problem.
I've now been told that I will be banned from seeing my Mum by the care home manager who says "we have a no bullying policy in place".
Perhaps your sister is in the same loop we're in.
We've raised concerns but it's been tuned back on us by the care home that we're the issue not the care that's being provided which we've raised concerns about.
We did our research -- did GCQ results etc -- top home but our experience is now such we're looking at moving Mum to another home.
Mum has frontal lobe dementia so it means she can't communicate her sentences are all rubbish unless you know what she's been doing etc day to day. But her main brain is still their although there are elements of dementia -- short term memory, understanding are still there.
Sadly Mum is in a situation where she herself knows this is happening to her. She poo'ed her jumper - knew it had happened - told the carers -- but they just said "doesn't matter". Mum said it does matter -- but they keep dressing her in the same poo'ed stained jumper every day although she has 6 other jumpers in her wardrobe.
I get your frustration with your sibling but maybe it's not her. All not all her fault. She maybe like us - we're trying raise issues/concerns but we're the bad guys.
Wish you all the best.

I’m sorry your going through a difficult time with the care home. It’s so hard isn’t it, even with an LPA in place I don’t feel it gives the power that a lot of other people assume that it does. Especially where someone lacks capacity.

The claims my sibling has made in the past have all been unfounded where as yours are genuine. That must be really frustrating for you and nobody wants their loved one in soiled clothes, there is no excise for it whatsoever and your shouldn’t be made to feel like it’s an unreasonable request.

There are signs everywhere in my dads care home stating that families should be able to raise issues without fear of restribrution.

This feels very much the opposite though and they never seem to confront my sister about the behavior. They always get me about it instead and it’s then myself facing the wrath of what is to come due to the which behavior I cannot control, we are two different people.

I don’t see why they can’t call her in for a meeting and discuss it directly with her rather than potentially punishing my dad because of it. It just feels very childish, unprofessional and causes me immense worry and distress.

 

[canary]

Hi @Rachelx88

they never seem to confront my sister about the behavior. They always get me about it instead and it’s then myself facing the wrath of what is to come due to the which behavior I cannot control, we are two different people.

I suspect that its you the manager comes back to because you are the POA and are your mums main carer. It is, unfortunately, your responsibility to work with the manager to sort out these sort of problems. The care home cannot bar your sister without your permission.

@Weasell has explained very well what the issue is from the care homes point of view. Even though all of your sisters complaints are unfounded the sheer volume of them is likely to cost the care home CQC ratings and staff leaving. Care homes have the final say in who they can and cannot accept and are at perfect liberty to give your dad 28 days notice, so I doubt that there will be a way to force them to keep your dad if they decide he must leave.

I think you are going to have to choose between your dad staying at the home, and your sisters right to visit him. Both are in his best interest, but I dont think you will be able to have both. So the question is - which one has the higher priority?

If you do nothing then the care home is likely to make that decision for you. I get the feeling that they are telling you about the problem so that you have the chance to sort it out and tell them to bar your sister from visiting, but if you dont then I think they will give your dad notice.

 

[Scarlet Lady]

Hi, @Rachelx88 . I think Canary is quite right and you may well have to make a difficult decision.
However, I’m wondering about your sister‘s motivation here. What does she hope to achieve with her difficult behaviour? Would it be possible for you to point out to her the consequences of these endless complaints? If so, would she take it on board? Surely she would not want to see her father removed from his place of safety, particularly when you may well find it extremely difficult to find another suitable home that would meet all his needs. If she is doing this purely out of malice, as you believe, presumably that malice is directed towards you, not your dad. She may get a bit of a shock when she realises that quite possibly the only person who will suffer here will be your dad.
I really hope that you can get her to see sense. If not, then I think you will have to strongly consider asking the home to refuse her entry. This may not stop her complaints to the local authorities or the CQC but if the authorities are aware of what’s been going on they would take this into consideration.

 

[Rachelx88]

Hi, @Rachelx88 . I think Canary is quite right and you may well have to make a difficult decision.
However, I’m wondering about your sister‘s motivation here. What does she hope to achieve with her difficult behaviour? Would it be possible for you to point out to her the consequences of these endless complaints? If so, would she take it on board? Surely she would not want to see her father removed from his place of safety, particularly when you may well find it extremely difficult to find another suitable home that would meet all his needs. If she is doing this purely out of malice, as you believe, presumably that malice is directed towards you, not your dad. She may get a bit of a shock when she realises that quite possibly the only person who will suffer here will be your dad.
I really hope that you can get her to see sense. If not, then I think you will have to strongly consider asking the home to refuse her entry. This may not stop her complaints to the local authorities or the CQC but if the authorities are aware of what’s been going on they would take this into consideration.

I have spoken with the home again and they have told Social Services that they can meet Dads needs but cannot meet hers. There will now be another best interests meeting to try and iron out the issues.

We have contacted my sibling to inform her of the next steps and make her aware that if it continues he will absolutely lose his placement and that still could be a real possibility at this point anyway.
I’m hoping that things calm down now that she is aware of the severity of the situation moving forwards.

The care home manager has been trying to contact head office about the situation so I’m not sure yet what the outcome of that will be at present.
I’m just praying that because they have stated that they can meet dads needs that it will help him to keep his placement but I won’t know any more until this coming week.

 

[Bod]

@Rachelx88
The position your sister has created, could be described a "Harassment" towards both the Home and her father.
It may well be worth taking Legal advice, on how to protect your father.

Bod

 

[Theresasouth staffs]

Good Evening All.
From my experience different members of families have different expectations.
I had a very good relationship with my Care Homes Managers up until recently
Mum was having several falls A DAY.
She has lost 2 stone in weeks and looks totally unkempt.

My sisters attitude is well she is being looked after and you expect to much.
I see my mum every day and i care about all aspects of her care.

My brother goes a few times a week and lets things go.

People have different expectations.
Because i raised a safe guarding backed by district nurses who aren't happy with her care.

I have now been told that notice is being given to mum as i'm to difficult to deal with. I have has lies said to the Social Worker saying i shouted at a member of staff which is not true.

Just maybe your sister is being treated a little unfairly here.

 

[JuneAnne]

I am in a very similar position.

 

[Theresasouth staffs]

Sorry to hear your in the same position June.
The issue did eventually sort itself out for a short while but more problems are arising again with falls.
I don't believe you can win against a Care Home.
Question Residents Care and there given notice.