Cost for mums care

[Bernycol]

Hello everyone.
My mother has early stage dementia, and is living with my sister.
I have recently discovered my sister is charging her £1700 per month.
My mother has some short term memory loss but otherwise deals with her own personal care needs.
She is 85 yrs old.
I am a little concerned at the cost she is incurring at this early stage of the disease
Does anyone consider this a reasonable figure?
I would appreciate any thoughts.

 

[canary]

Hello @Bernycol and welcome to DTP.


Most care homes are cheaper than this!!! My mums care home - which was a dedicated dementia unit - cost just over half that.
What exactly is her sister providing for this?

 

[Wildflowerlady]

Must admit it does seem an awful lot of money and if my dad were to have come and lived with me would not have taken anywhere near that amount only a bit to cover extra expense for his needs but obviously I don't know all the circumstances. Does your sister pay for someone to spend time with your mum or carers of some sort special dietery needs, or outings out to keep her occupied? I go to my dad a few times a week by car and do his shopping but its never crossed my mind to charge him for the bit of expense I now incur and have done for 4 years however your mum lives with her so I can understand she does need to have some payment to cover the extra expense of her living with her but as I say £1,700 does sound a lot.. Do you have a LPA for your mum?

 

[Louise7]

Welcome from me too @Bernycol £1,7000 monthly averages out at around £400 weekly, give or take and I'd be very surprised if you could find a care home that charges less than that.

As @canary has said, what exactly is your sister providing for the money - is she charging your mum for accommodation, food, bills etc on top of care?

 

[lemonbalm]

My mum's care home fees are over £4000 per month, £945 a week!

 

[Sarasa]

Mum’s care home fees are nearly that a week @Bernycol. It could easily cost that for carers coming in, regular day centre visits, keeping the heating on high etc etc. Do you have power of attorney between you or does just your sister have it? If neither of you do it would be worth sorting out.
I think it would be worth chatting to your sister about how the money is being used before assuming the worst, that your sister is taking advantage of your mum, which is what you seem worried about.

 

[canary]

£1,7000 monthly averages out at around £400 weekly, give or take and I'd be very surprised if you could find a care home that charges less than that.

Sorry, misread it

 

[Bernycol]

Must admit it does seem an awful lot of money and if my dad were to have come and lived with me would not have taken anywhere near that amount only a bit to cover extra expense for his needs but obviously I don't know all the circumstances. Does your sister pay for someone to spend time with your mum or carers of some sort special dietery needs, or outings out to keep her occupied? I go to my dad a few times a week by car and do his shopping but its never crossed my mind to charge him for the bit of expense I now incur and have done for 4 years however your mum lives with her so I can understand she does need to have some payment to cover the extra expense of her living with her but as I say £1,700 does sound a lot.. Do you have a LPA for your mum?

Hi everyone I really appreciate your input. I should clarify a couple of points.
My mum is nowhere near care home status. Aside from the short term memory loss and elderly ailments
Of someone in their eighties , she is fine. My sister does not work, so she is just charging for board, lodging and day to day expenses. I do have a LPA with my sister, and I do know how this illness deteriorates as my MIL passed less than a year ago after a long battle with Alzheimer's.
My main concern is that her personal funds are being diminished too quickly, funds she will need to rely on further down the line.

 

[Bunty2410]

Hello
I think your sister is being somewhat tinkerish. If you revisit what ones obligations are under a POA for Property and Finances ( I’m thinking this is what you’ve got) you'll find out that the OPG would take a dim view of what she is doing. The first step would be to talk this through with your sister in the hope she will modify what she is charging your mum for living expenses. If she does not accept what your saying then you have to make the uncomfortable decision to address this issue legally thus acting in your mothers best interest which is what we have to do when given POA.

 

[Bernycol]

Hello @Bernycol and welcome to DTP.


Most care homes are cheaper than this!!! My mums care home - which was a dedicated dementia unit - cost just over half that.
What exactly is her sister providing for this?

Well, feeding her, managing her meds etc.
But my mum is nowhere near being in a care home. That's the point. She just needs supervision if anything.

 

[Sarasa]

@Bernycol, it does sound like your sister is taking advantage, but how often do you see your mum and for for how long. It's just that people with dementia can seem pretty good for a short while (called host/hostess mode round here) with family and friends that they don't see for extended periods. It might be that your sister feels that if your mum wasn't living with her she would be able to work, though I admit this is a very grey area and one that needs the two of you to sit down and discuss before you fall out.

 

[Bernycol]

Hello
I think your sister is being somewhat tinkerish. If you revisit what ones obligations are under a POA for Property and Finances ( I’m thinking this is what you’ve got) you'll find out that the OPG would take a dim view of what she is doing. The first step would be to talk this through with your sister in the hope she will modify what she is charging your mum for living expenses. If she does not accept what your saying then you have to make the uncomfortable decision to address this issue legally thus acting in your mothers best interest which is what we have to do when given POA.

Thank you. I think it may have to be the OPG I refer to. There are some other transactions on her bank statement that look a bit dubious. cannot believe I am having to do this!

 

[Starting on a journey]

It seems about £1000 too much!!!
We have to be realistic, even in the early stages having your parent with dementia affects your life, big time.
In my case I gave up work so when my husband died (mum was in very early stages then) mum agreed to pay her food and half house bills so I didn’t go back to work. I had bought a new car mainly for her to be carried around in and extended the house for her to live here.
I do think that parents should pay if they can especially if you give up work, income and pension (I’ve lost £150 per month in works pension through not working and that’s for the rest of my life).
However it comes down to affordability, my mum has a good income and can afford to share, i would not touch her savings for day to day living expenses.
I know others don’t ask the parent for anything but I guess it depends on your own circumstances.

 

[Starting on a journey]

@Bernycol speak to your sister first before the OPG , there may be a reason.

 

[Shedrech]

hello @Bernycol
welcome to DTP

personally, I too think that the amount (over £20,000 a year) is far too much if it is simply to cover a fair share of household expenses ... your mum will, presumably, be paying for any personal expenses herself ...it doesn't sound as though your mum needs hands on personal care (so wouldn't yet qualify for Attendance Allowance, so your sister won't yet qualify for carer's allowance) but it is worth checking this as often those living with the person have a very different experience of their situation than those who aren't there all day every day

have a calm chat with your sister just to ask how this figure was worked out and exactly what your sister pays out for your mum ... you may want to mention Deprivation of Assets, as Local Authorities are careful about how money has been spent once someone is likely to need residential care at some point

maybe also mention that any Attorney works under the understanding that the Attorney does not benefit financially form being an Attorney ... though, from what you say, it doesn't sound as though your mum is in any way considered to no longer have capacity to manage her affairs, so the LPA isn't in effect ... your mum, therefore, can make even (what others consider to be) bad choices, though your sister as her future Attorney ought to keep those responsibilities in mind

you might want to contact the OPG to ask for their thoughts ... I would, though, keep your enquiry as asking about a possible situation to check whether it would be acceptable/good practice ... the OPG doesn't like to have Attorneys arguing amongst themselves when issues could be sorted out between them, and can, in extreme cases, take the Power away from the Attorneys, which you don't want

 

[TNJJ]

I

Hello
I think your sister is being somewhat tinkerish. If you revisit what ones obligations are under a POA for Property and Finances ( I’m thinking this is what you’ve got) you'll find out that the OPG would take a dim view of what she is doing. The first step would be to talk this through with your sister in the hope she will modify what she is charging your mum for living expenses. If she does not accept what your saying then you have to make the uncomfortable decision to address this issue legally thus acting in your mothers best interest which is what we have to do when given POA.

It can be written in the LPOA that the donor can pay the attorney some money each month. That would be their wish...

 

[Weasell]

Is attendance allowance being claimed?
Does your sister work?

 

[MartinWL]

I glanced at postcard adverts in a shop window recently, in a London suburb. You could easily pay £600 a month to rent a bedroom in a shared house with no food or services included. So £1700 a month with care services and food included looks expensive but not outrageous especially if it is a large nice house and room.

This could however be a plan to minimise inheritance tax when the time comes. Reducing the assets of the mother by passing funds to the daughter as fees and rent will mean less to pay the tax man if the daughter inherited from the mother. It won't count as a taxable gift as it was a fee. I have no idea if this is the case but it could be that the older women has intentionally agreed this out of desire to pass on as much as possible to her daughter rather than the Treasury. Not sure where that puts other siblings!

 

[MaryMac54]

Hello everyone.
My mother has early stage dementia, and is living with my sister.
I have recently discovered my sister is charging her £1700 per month.
My mother has some short term memory loss but otherwise deals with her own personal care needs.
She is 85 yrs old.
I am a little concerned at the cost she is incurring at this early stage of the disease
Does anyone consider this a reasonable figure?
I would appreciate any thoughts.

My Husband is about to go to a Care Home and the fees are around £800, where they need the lowest level of care, per week which equates to £3,466 per month. So your sister is charging £392 per week. I did a calculation, very rough, and if I was paid for the 24 hour care less 4 hours sleep per night, charging double time over 12 hours per day and weekends and holidays you could not take, I did 3 calcs - if I charged my hourly rate at work, one if I used £12.00 per hour and one on minimum pay. The minimum pay came out at £1,700 (£8.72 per hour) per week. So it really depends how you value this. Is your sister having to stay in for the majority of the time? Does she have to arrange someone to sit with your mum when she goes out. I assume your mother gets attendance allowance to contribute to this. It does seem steep if your sister is only providing food and lodging. Unfortunately, we often undervalue carers.