my mum has Frontal Temporal Dementia and is about to be asked to leave her current Care Home due to violence to the staff. She suffers from extreme anxiety, agitation, violent outbursts, is incontinent, has word loss etc. She is about to be put on anti psychotic drugs and will need to move to - well we are not sure at the moment, social services and dementia wellbeing team are now involved, possibly somewhere with one to one care. At any point will she qualify for CHC? I feel we have moved past social care.
CHC and Complex Needs Dementia
- Thread starter Redlib
- Start date
yes she does qualify to be considered ….but before she can.... you run the gauntlet of pinging a checklist so she can be considered …….and that's not easy when no one agrees to do one..... find out the direct number of the CCG(commissioning care group ) or CHC office in whatever district you are . plead your case for a checklist insist that you are there when its completed... its your right and its a national framework by law … so don't get fobbed off by …."we don't do that here" if they say that ring CCG office and tell them …. its not diagnosis lead but NEEDS lead.... pleading a case for how ill they are ( unless at the level of palliative care) otherwise it wont nessasarally help your cause. Its about the complexity of caring for the unpredictability of your mothers worsening behaviour and the knock on affect that may have on your mothers health if not managed correctly by skilled mental health staff that will see if she's qualifies or not ….. NOT her level of dementia or any other diagnosis ….
staff may be helpful SS may be helpful but chances are they not
watch , listen ,study and try to get your head around the founding principle behind chc funding and said laws to which it relates ….. cos I cant be there to help you should you trip up on placed and well practised obsticals. Its not complicated or beyond the intelligence of anyone able to post chat here …...trust me (or not hugs regardless) do the getting to understand it …. and then you will know in your heart (because you know what she needs better than anyone) if you believe she's entiteled fight for it ….. if you just want it cos its there regardless of mothers needs .. forget it .
ONLY YOU CAN KNOW IF ITS A FIGHT THATS RIGHT.
Start here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrpFLLwGqhs
forgive spelling mistakes checker broke ask if not understand
start with the link
the fairysolaris
Pray you have a good Social worker and your mum is transferred to a care home with experience of getting CHC funding. I say this because my dad was asked to leave his first care home due to his challenging behaviour. CHC funding was first mentioned to me by the Social worker and I was told by her what kind of care home to look for which really helped. When I visited one of the care homes described as Dementia + they asked me if we had CHC funding and I said I had been advised by the SW that we would be applying for it. The care home gave me the CHC checklist so I could be prepared and said they would do everything they could to assist and support us and they were brilliant.
It was agreed that once dad had transferred to the new care home, they would give him 4 weeks to settle in and enable them to gather enough evidence. The SW did the initial CHC checklist with me and the care home nurse and dad was found eligible so she then referred him to the CHC team to do their full assessment.
In the meantime, I was told to keep lots of notes and evidence of dads behaviour and the care home kept an ABC chart, recording every incident that occurred in the home. All this was invaluable when the CHC team did the assessment. The care home nurse, a care worker, myself and my dad all sat in the meeting, unfortunately the SW couldn't attend the meeting, but she had arranged to meet with them prior to that meeting to give them her findings etc.. We managed between us to provide enough evidence to the CHC team to meet the criteria and secure the full funding. This was reviewed 3/4 months later and we still had enough evidence to carry on with the funding.
Good luck.
It was agreed that once dad had transferred to the new care home, they would give him 4 weeks to settle in and enable them to gather enough evidence. The SW did the initial CHC checklist with me and the care home nurse and dad was found eligible so she then referred him to the CHC team to do their full assessment.
In the meantime, I was told to keep lots of notes and evidence of dads behaviour and the care home kept an ABC chart, recording every incident that occurred in the home. All this was invaluable when the CHC team did the assessment. The care home nurse, a care worker, myself and my dad all sat in the meeting, unfortunately the SW couldn't attend the meeting, but she had arranged to meet with them prior to that meeting to give them her findings etc.. We managed between us to provide enough evidence to the CHC team to meet the criteria and secure the full funding. This was reviewed 3/4 months later and we still had enough evidence to carry on with the funding.
Good luck.
Thank you for your replies. I am prepared to fight. I have never met my mother’s social worker as once we were identified as self funding we were pretty much jettisoned by social services. If an initial assessment took place for CHC when she was discharged fro hospital I was unaware of it. I’be looked at the initial checklist and believe she has two “As” already. So I will be chasing up the next step.
Our primary aim at the moment is though to keep mum where she is. Any move would be highly detrimental to her anxiety and agitation. The home is small and lovely but just struggling to cope at the moment. If I pursue CHC and achieve it could the NHS make her move?
Our primary aim at the moment is though to keep mum where she is. Any move would be highly detrimental to her anxiety and agitation. The home is small and lovely but just struggling to cope at the moment. If I pursue CHC and achieve it could the NHS make her move?
If its a care home and not a nursing then, yes, Im afraid that she would have to move if you got CHC (or even just the Funded Nursing componant) as it is only payable in a Nursing home - which might actually turn out to be more expensive for you if she only got the FNC. So, be careful.
How up to date is the You tube video?
I notice that many of the comments on it are 3 years old.
Bod
I’ve just been through a CHC funding decision and subsequent review . Mum was part funding and LA with me 3rd party top up , in March she was very poorly and placed on EOL at Care Home. Palliative care team applied fast track CHC which was granted I was then given a week to find a NH . This was all very stressful bear in mind mum was very ill . I managed to place her in a fantastic NH and took a breath thought that the worst was over and I could be with mum and make special what time we had . Three months on and a review by CHC withdrew funding .... she was given 1 severe, 3 high, 2 moderate, 2 low and 3 no needs . Basically she had lived longer than they expected they said she would have to move as the NH I chose was mega expensive . To the end we battled and she has been able to stay with LA payments , her contribution and FNC . It’s a battle they do not want to give CHC and it’s hard to keep it . Stand your ground .
Fast track CHC is granted when an 'appropriate clinician' signs:
The individual fulfils the following criterion:
He or she has a rapidly deteriorating condition and the condition may be entering a terminal phase. For the purposes of Fast Track eligibility this constitutes a primary health need. No other test is required.
Note 'may be entering a terminal phase'
There is no scoring in domains.
In my opinion any review should first determine whether or not the criterion is still met before using the DST to determine future eligibility.
The following is worth noting:
14. The completed Fast Track Pathway Tool should be supported by a prognosis, where available. However, strict time limits that base eligibility on a specified expected length of life remaining should not be imposed:
a) ‘rapidly deteriorating' should not be interpreted narrowly as only meaning an anticipated specific or short time frame of life remaining; and
b) ‘may be entering a terminal phase’ is not intended to be restrictive to only those situations where death is imminent.
It is the responsibility of the appropriate clinician to make a decision based on whether the individual’s needs meet the Fast Track criteria.
https://assets.publishing.service.g...are_fast_track_tool-December_2018_revised.odt
Thank you interesting reading , mums criteria hasn’t changed, it’s come down to the fact that the new NH are brilliant and have the time to feed her one to one and have the equipment to manage her skin integrity due to 100% bedridden . I always remember reading a quote that said “ a managed need is still a need “ I am considering an appeal
The trouble is that even professionals don’t understand the concept of “a managed need is still a need”!
I was talking about this with the Manager of The Banjoman’s Care Home and a Social Worker and all I could get the Manager to say was “But we have that under control” or “We are dealing with that”, she seemed unable to accept that just because they were coping with a problem it didn’t mean it had disappeared forever because if they stopped what they were doing it would instantly return!
I was talking about this with the Manager of The Banjoman’s Care Home and a Social Worker and all I could get the Manager to say was “But we have that under control” or “We are dealing with that”, she seemed unable to accept that just because they were coping with a problem it didn’t mean it had disappeared forever because if they stopped what they were doing it would instantly return!
Absolutely if mums NH didn’t manage her needs with in a few days she would be eligible for CHC fast track , we are just on a merry go round of funding / reviews / stress !! . If I appeal and get it reinstated I’m sure next review they will withdraw it . When a loved one is clearly dying we shouldn’t be subjected to this .
Do a ctrl-f search for well-managed on
https://www.events.england.nhs.uk/u...work-for-chc-and-fnc-october-2018-revised.pdf to read the official guidance.
https://www.events.england.nhs.uk/u...work-for-chc-and-fnc-october-2018-revised.pdf to read the official guidance.
I agree with you on that , while mums NH are doing great I have to admit I’m so lucky to have found this home for mum , I know any move would be detrimental to her health but it’s the constant unknown and assessments that are stressful, I hope now we can settle again . We had two peaceful years in CH then five months of upheaval moving .
I’m not sure this is correct. I’ve been reading the official guidance and it actually states that the location of the care is irrelevant. It can be at home, in a Care home or nursing home.
For CHC the setting doesn't matter, it can be in a home or even your own home in theory, FNC is only paid to nursing homes where there is a qualified nurse on site 24/7.
K