Charging Order Against Mums Property

[Jallan1972]

Hi, I’ve lived with my mother for 6yrs along with my 2 young children aged 7yrs and 5yrs.

Mum has now had to go into a care home full time and the local authorities have decided based on her pension that they won’t fund her care - They also want to put a charging order against her property for any other fees they may incur in the future.



Can anyone advise if this is normal practice..

 

[canary]

Hello @Jallan1972

Im going to make a few assumptions here and if I am wrong please tell me.

Im assuming that
a) you live in UK
b) your mum owns the property you are living in
c) you are neither over 60 yrs old, nor are disabled

When someone moves into a care home they are assessed about their finances. If they own a property then unless there is a spouse, or another close relative who is over 60 or disabled living there then the property is considered as being part of their assets and usually has to be sold to pay for the care home fees.

If this is not done (for whatever reason) then a charge is placed on the property. It is similar to a loan with the property being used as security.

Have you tried applying to the Local Authority for a discretionary disregard for your mums property? This would mean that your mums property would not be considered as part of her assets, but (as the name suggests) it is done at the discretion of the LA. I would claim for this on the grounds that you have young children living there, which I would think would increase your chances of being granted it, but there is no guarantee, Im afraid.

 

[nitram]

Can anyone advise if this is normal practice..

This sounds like a deferred payment agreement

 

[Kevinl]

This sounds like a deferred payment agreement

True but a discresionary disregard given the circumstances could be an option, six years as a carer, woman alone, former carer, two children, facing homelessness if they move out or sell.
If that isn't a discretionary disregard what is. K

 

[nitram]

True but a discresionary disregard given the circumstances could be an option,

Agree about discretionary disregard, I was commenting on current set up.

Although grandchildren are not included in list of relatives for mandatory disregard

Subject to certain conditions, from April 2015 a property must be disregarded where it is
occupied as their main or only home by one of the following:
a. the adult’s partner, civil partner or former partner (except where the adult is estranged
or divorced from the partner,
b. a lone parent who is the adult’s estranged or divorced partner with a child that is
under 18,
c. a relative or family member of the adult who:
i. is aged 60 or over, or
ii. is a child of the adult aged under 18, or
iii. is incapacitated

22

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7e21d040f0b62305b81026/Relatives_Property_Disregard_Guidance_final.pdf

at least one LA include them for 'automatic disregard'

Automatic property disregard
Where one of the following people had lived in the property as their main home, continuously since before you moved into residential care by:

your partner, former partner or civil partner, except if you are estranged from that person
a lone parent who is your estranged or divorced partner
a relative of yours who is over 60
your child and aged under 18
A relative is defined as:

a parent or parent-in-law
son or son-in-law
daughter or daughter-in-law
stepparent
stepson or stepdaughter
brother or sister
spouse, civil partner or unmarried partner of any of the above relatives
grandparent
grandchild
uncle or aunt
nephew or niece

Property disregard

A property disregard happens when the value of your main home is not included in your financial assessment when seeking funding for a care home. This may be because the property is still occupied by family.

www.bcpcouncil.gov.uk

Looks as if asking for a discretionary disregard is worthwhile.

 

[Kevinl]

Nice one nitram. K

 

[Jessbow]

Agree about discretionary disregard, I was commenting on current set up.

Although grandchildren are not included in list of relatives for mandatory disregard

Subject to certain conditions, from April 2015 a property must be disregarded where it is
occupied as their main or only home by one of the following:
a. the adult’s partner, civil partner or former partner (except where the adult is estranged
or divorced from the partner,
b. a lone parent who is the adult’s estranged or divorced partner with a child that is
under 18,
c. a relative or family member of the adult who:
i. is aged 60 or over, or
ii. is a child of the adult aged under 18, or
iii. is incapacitated

22

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7e21d040f0b62305b81026/Relatives_Property_Disregard_Guidance_final.pdf

at least one LA include them for 'automatic disregard'

Automatic property disregard
Where one of the following people had lived in the property as their main home, continuously since before you moved into residential care by:

your partner, former partner or civil partner, except if you are estranged from that person
a lone parent who is your estranged or divorced partner
a relative of yours who is over 60
your child and aged under 18
A relative is defined as:

a parent or parent-in-law
son or son-in-law
daughter or daughter-in-law
stepparent
stepson or stepdaughter
brother or sister
spouse, civil partner or unmarried partner of any of the above relatives
grandparent
grandchild
uncle or aunt
nephew or niece

Property disregard

A property disregard happens when the value of your main home is not included in your financial assessment when seeking funding for a care home. This may be because the property is still occupied by family.

www.bcpcouncil.gov.uk

Looks as if asking for a discretionary disregard is worthwhile.

nice long list of relatives, but that relative still has to be over 60, as i read it

do you have a home of your own, Jallan? , elsewhere?

 

[Jallan1972]

nice long list of relatives, but that relative still has to be over 60, as i read it

do you have a home of your own, Jallan? , elsewhere?

Hi,

No I don‘t have my own home - I’ve been on my Mums council tax since January 2018 along with both my kids ( Who also attend the local primary school ) and as such my Mums council tax payment reflected this since we moved in with her.

We also live in Scotland - Not sure if this changes anything..??

 

[Jallan1972]

Hello @Jallan1972

Im going to make a few assumptions here and if I am wrong please tell me.

Im assuming that
a) you live in UK
b) your mum owns the property you are living in
c) you are neither over 60 yrs old, nor are disabled

When someone moves into a care home they are assessed about their finances. If they own a property then unless there is a spouse, or another close relative who is over 60 or disabled living there then the property is considered as being part of their assets and usually has to be sold to pay for the care home fees.

If this is not done (for whatever reason) then a charge is placed on the property. It is similar to a loan with the property being used as security.

Have you tried applying to the Local Authority for a discretionary disregard for your mums property? This would mean that your mums property would not be considered as part of her assets, but (as the name suggests) it is done at the discretion of the LA. I would claim for this on the grounds that you have young children living there, which I would think would increase your chances of being granted it, but there is no guarantee, Im afraid.

Hi,

Thanks for this

Hello @Jallan1972

Im going to make a few assumptions here and if I am wrong please tell me.

Im assuming that
a) you live in UK
b) your mum owns the property you are living in
c) you are neither over 60 yrs old, nor are disabled

When someone moves into a care home they are assessed about their finances. If they own a property then unless there is a spouse, or another close relative who is over 60 or disabled living there then the property is considered as being part of their assets and usually has to be sold to pay for the care home fees.

If this is not done (for whatever reason) then a charge is placed on the property. It is similar to a loan with the property being used as security.

Have you tried applying to the Local Authority for a discretionary disregard for your mums property? This would mean that your mums property would not be considered as part of her assets, but (as the name suggests) it is done at the discretion of the LA. I would claim for this on the grounds that you have young children living there, which I would think would increase your chances of being granted it, but there is no guarantee, Im afraid.

Hi,

Thanks for this Canary.

You‘re correct with your assumption.

 

[Rayreadynow]

If it is a deferred payment agreement then someone must have signed the agreement?

Possible solution: I would either apply for a POA or Deputyship and when you get either you will then be able to decide who lives at your mothers property i.e yourself and if it is rent free or not.

 

[Jessbow]

If it is a deferred payment agreement then someone must have signed the agreement?

Possible solution: I would either apply for a POA or Deputyship and when you get either you will then be able to decide who lives at your mothers property i.e yourself and if it is rent free or not.

If only it were that simple! Even a POA cannot decide who lives in a property when it needs to be liquidised to pay for residential care. Even if Jallan waspoa, shed still have to be seen to pay rent- POA cannot benefit from their position.

What would thelocal housing office say if you registered as homeless- which you may have to do

 

[Rayreadynow]

A POA could make a gift of rent free accommodation possibly?

 

[Jessbow]

A POA could make a gift of rent free accommodation possibly?

Not to themselves they couldn't!

You are charged as an POA to make decisions in the donors best interest. and not benefit yurself from the Power

 

[canary]

If it is a deferred payment agreement then someone must have signed the agreement?

Possible solution: I would either apply for a POA or Deputyship and when you get either you will then be able to decide who lives at your mothers property i.e yourself and if it is rent free or not.

Unfortunately POA doesnt work like that, but even if it did, there is still the problem of how the care home fees will be paid. @Jallan1972 doesnt fit the eligibility for a mandatory disregard and unless they can get a discretionary disregard the house will be deemed to be part of their mums assets. This would mean that either the house has to be sold to pay the fees, or there is a deferred payment agreement (a charge put on the house)

Personally, I hope they get the discretionary disregard.

 

[Jallan1972]

Hi,

Can anyone confirm that a charging order against a property expires in 12 years in Scotland.

Thanks in advance.

 

[nitram]

Try asking https://www.alzscot.org/

EDIT
Have a read through
https://www.scotlanddebt.co.uk/busi...ou owe money to,known as an inhibition ordern .

 

[Jessbow]

As i read this , https://www.tcyoung.co.uk/our-blog/debt-recovery-using-an-inhibition the property wouldnt be transferable to you even if thats what her will says

i think you need to consult a solicitor really, proper legal advice

 

[canary]

Hi,

Can anyone confirm that a charging order against a property expires in 12 years in Scotland.

Thanks in advance.

Im afraid I dont know the answer to that, but your mum is unlikely to live for 12 years or more in a care home and once she dies the debt would have to be paid out of her estate.

 

[Louise7]

Hello @Jallan1972 and welcome to the forum. I understand that in Scotland Councils can opt to use a charging order as an alternative to a deferred payment. You might find the link below from Care Information Scotland helpful as it includes links to where you can get professional advice about this complex subject and how it applies to your personal circumstances:

https://careinfoscotland.scot/topics/care-homes/paying-care-home-fees/deferred-payment/

 

[mairimack]

Hi

Hi, I’ve lived with my mother for 6yrs along with my 2 young children aged 7yrs and 5yrs.

Mum has now had to go into a care home full time and the local authorities have decided based on her pension that they won’t fund her care - They also want to put a charging order against her property for any other fees they may incur in the future.



Can anyone advise if this is normal practice..

Hi, just wondering if you had an update. I am in a similar position, living with two young children in my mother's home. Did you get a disregard? Also in Scotland (Glasgow) Thanks. M