Care Home Fees

lilykins

Registered User
Oct 23, 2008
48
0
Greater London
Hi Everyone,

Have just looked back a few pages and can't find much discussion on this subject. Have been to visit two care homes this week. One very nice - cost £710 per week, one very smelly £1000 per week. I am absolutely furious about this situation. My mum and dad both worked all their lives, scraped together the money to buy their council house and have never been a drain on the state. If my mum didn't have her private pensions the government would expect her to live at home on a state pension of £120 per week yet when she needs to go into care it suddenly costs £700+ to keep her. I have written to my MP who has not bothered to answer me. I know all the political parties are talking about this subject at the moment but it's only to get votes. They all want to penalise those who take care of themselves.

Anyone else feel as bitter as me?

Lilykins
 

susiesue

Registered User
Mar 15, 2007
2,607
0
Herts
Hi Lilykins

Yes I feel just as bitter as you!!

My husband who has had dementia for approx 4 years now is only 68 and for the last two weeks I have put him into a Care Home for respite. Because of his 'demanding' behaviour I have been forced to pay more for one to one care, costing me in excess of £1,000 per week:eek:

He too has worked hard all his life - in fact he was a workaholic - and he prepared well for our retirement. As a result of that we have received no support, financial or otherwise, and because of his age I can foresee a long and costly future when I can no longer look after him at home, which I don't think will be long now.

So, yes I am just as angry as you are - possibly more so as my husband's dementia is early onset and not 'age related'. As such I feel it should be covered by the NHS just as any other disease such as lung or heart disease - this is a disease of the brain.

Take care.
 

Winnie Kjaer

Account Closed
Aug 14, 2009
2,011
0
Devon
I agree too, but it is not just the care home charges it is the care charges in general. Dementia is as we know an illness i.e. a desease of the brain and should therefore be covered by the NHS. It makes me so angry that they say it is a social need rather than a health need. They would not have the social needs if it was not for the health needs would they. It should therefore be funded by NHS from early onset and not just in the very late stages. Even then you have to fight for it. It will change but possibly too late for our men.
 

MJW

Registered User
Sep 24, 2009
154
0
East Sussex
Care home costs

Lilykins, there is nothing to prevent you from moving your mum to another area of the UK where fees are cheaper. As both my parents are in care and both self-funding, £1,000 a week would be gone very quickly indeed: in fact their fees are around £300 per week each in Leicestershire. The carers are very kind and although it is not high luxury it is certainly homely, and with good food, and does not smell of wee! It does mean an 11-hour round trip to visit, but as we have never been close I don't feel under pressure to do it very often. I suppose the travelling time is more of a factor if you want to visit regularly. However, it is one less thing to worry about if you know the fees can be paid for some time to come.
 

lilykins

Registered User
Oct 23, 2008
48
0
Greater London
Nice to know others feel the same as me. Yes, suppose I could move her to a different area, but there would be all the hassle of travelling to see her. Wonder if I could move her to Scotland, I am pretty sure it's free there, bet they wouldn't let us do that! Ah well, here goes £37000 for the first year.
Luckily my mum's bank accounts are all joint with me so I can access the money, but has anyone any advice on the house. It is in her name, so presumably the law won't allow me to sell or even rent it out to maybe recoup some of the fees.

Lilykins
 

BeverleyY

Registered User
Jan 29, 2008
716
0
Ashford, Kent
I think we all agree that it is disgusting to expect people to fund themselves if they have dementia.

My parents sold their house 7 years ago and moved in with us. Thankfully, I didn't put their names on the deeds of this house (although they did give us some money - equal to the amount they gave my sister at the same time). I dread to think, if Dad ever went into care and had been on my deeds... would they have expected the house sold from under us and the kids feet?:confused:

Dad at this moment, has money but not sure if he will have enough to be self funding by time he ever needs to go into a care home. That could be years and years away as he is pretty stable. Being totally honest, the amount he has was always meant for splitting between his 4 grandchildren. His last Will that was made with my Mum when she was alive specifies that. Obviously, with Mum now gone the Will is no longer valid.

Dad regularly gives his grandchildren money in an effort to get rid of his money. I also make sure he always has new clothes etc and everything he could wish for ..... but, sometimes I worry that if he ever needed funding and SS deemed he had 'squandered' his money.. could they refuse funding (I have heard they can)... and if they did that, as his daughter could I be made to pay for a care home? Surely, children cannot be forced to pay for their parents care???

Sorry to go off on a tangent there... but, just wonder if anyone knows the answer to my question.

Thanks.

Beverley
 

susiesue

Registered User
Mar 15, 2007
2,607
0
Herts
I thought that seven year rule was for the Inland Revenue - but maybe it applies to the LA too - I'd like to find out too.
 

Willowgill

Registered User
Mar 29, 2008
91
0
South Yorkshire
Totally agree with you all too. My parents both worked all their lives and lived off their savings during their retirement until this had practically run out - all they have left is their home. Their one abiding fear was that they would have to go into care and I would have to sell their house to pay for it. I always assurred them that I would do my utmost never to put them in care but as we all know sadly events often conspire against us and after a fall last summer Mum needed 24 hour care and wasn't allowed to return home - she could no longer walk, is incontinent and has dementia. I had no choice but to find a suitable home nearby and which I have no complaints about but now have the ongoing situation of Dad being at home also with dementia. As long as he remains in the family home Mum's care is funded 50/50 by the local authority and the NHS - if/when the time comes he also needs to go into care I will need to sell their house to fund the £1000 a week fees we will be faced with. On the other hand my in laws both terminally ill with cancer will receive all the care they need free of charge - it just doesn't make sense does it?!
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
As Susiesue says - yes, the 7 years is for the inland revenue. It's all to do with intent when it comes to deprivation of assets: if the reason for disposing of an assets was not entirely (or mainly) due to avoiding care home fees, then it's not deprivation. Time doesn't, strictly speaking, come into it, although obviously, the longer ago it happened then the less likely it is to be an issue.

Every situation is different and it's impossible to give a blanket assurance one way or the other.
 

Mickelson

Registered User
Jan 16, 2010
21
0
Very topical thread at the moment. My mother is 'self funding' in respect of her social care and the local PCT contributes to the nursing element of the care. Having had numerous issues with her finances, I have now managed to invest her assets into savings bonds which coupled with her private pensions meet her care home costs but only just.

My concern and I have no doubt others may be affected, that by investing her assets she now falls into a higher tax bracket and is now being taxed quite heavily. It's a 'double whammy' in every respest because the income she receives from her investments to pay for her care is taxed. She is of that generation who saved for the proverbial 'rainy day' but I have serious doubts whether the next generation will have the same motivation to save in light of possible future care costs. There has to be a fairer system.
 

Marysdaughter

Registered User
Jan 16, 2010
10
0
Norwich,Norfolk
Sad also.

At a time so difficult its easy to feel bitter about self funding, its so unfair that this disease of the brain is treated so differently to a disease of the heart or any other that causes incapacity.
My mum pays £450 a week for her home, the modest £130,000 she has through her house sale wont go far.
Its so difficult choosing the right home. The official reports are OK but isnt it a shame that there isnt a web site or somewhere that it is possible to get opinions of people that have relatives in these homes, they are the ones who really have relevant information.
The whole situation is a nightmare, try to let go of the anger about self funding, concentrate on getting the best care with the best information you can. Its all any of us can do. I really feel for you. xxx
 

Bristolbelle

Registered User
Aug 18, 2006
1,847
0
Bristol
Our situation

When my Mum was diagnosed with dementia we decided to sell our old home and buy her council house which we could afford to do form the sale. In order to get the discount she was entitled to for living in the house for forty years we had to buy it in her name. The we had to take out a mortgage to pay for a granny annexe to be built (30,000) again in her name (the name on the mortgage had to match the one on the deeds) although we actually pay it. We should have been able to put our name on the deeds after three years, that was what we understood, but in actual fact now we have reached that point we have been told we can not do that without her consent whcih she is nolonger able to give. Technically this means the house is in her name, but when we voiced our concerns about the possiblilty of them beleiving it was her house and that they might try and malke her sell it if she needed care they told us noty to worry. So long as we can prove we hve invested the oney from our old house and paid the mortgage there is no danger of them forcing a sale. However when wwe were in our old house we were getting help with the mortgage in the form of housing benefit, but the DWP did not consider our move necessary for US! So when we moved as we had enough to pay off the old mortgage we were refused any help with the new one. That's the reward you get for caring.
In respect of fees Mum is currently self funding and it costs about £645 a week for respite. The care is good but for that sort of money I would be expecting one on one. How can the award a carer the measly carers allowance (and not even that if you are earning too much) and expect us to care as we do when profgessional care is so expensive/ They could save money simple by increasing carers a llowance and making more people feel it is worth trying to care for their loved ones.
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
I'll tell you, I always felt very resentful that my mother's care home fees came out of post tax earnings. I didn't really resent the other stuff to be honest - I was grateful she had been fiscally prudent and that gave us some choices, but the fact that something was so clearly a "need" not a "choice" should have netted some advantage when it came to paying taxes.
 

alfjess

Registered User
Jul 10, 2006
1,213
0
south lanarkshire
Wonder if I could move her to Scotland, I am pretty sure it's free there, bet they wouldn't let us do that!
Lilykins

Hi Lilykins

I wish care was free in Scotland.

It cost £1005.00 per week to keep mum and Dad in residential care.

The only thing which is free is, personal care £125 per week, or nursing care £215 per week

As for the rest, we have to pay like everyone else

I suppose free personal/nursing care is better than nothing, but it is a myth that we don't pay in Scotland

Alfjess
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
To add to what Alfjess said - you don't get AA if you get personal care in Scotland (in fact I'm not sure what the situation is with regard to AA in Scotland) and if you get Nursing Care in England it is now a maximum of £146.30.

I must confess it drives me nuts when people assume that people in Scotland get a much better deal over this. In fact, it seems much harder to get NHS CC in Scotland, which is really where the responsibility lies.
 

Margaret W

Registered User
Apr 28, 2007
3,720
0
North Derbyshire
It is all a farce, and will get me on my soap box. Again.

It is high time that someone realised that if a person NEEDS to be in a care home for their own safety or health needs, then it should be provided by the state. Gone are the days when people went into a care home just cos they fancied doing so. People are in care homes becase there is no other choice of where to live. And it should be paid for by the state, i.e. My and your taxes that we have long been paying and seen no benefit for.

I didn't mind my mum's house being sold to pay care fees. What I DID mind was that the small amount raised from a 2-up,2-down mansion would only pay for a few years, and after that the local authority wouldn't pay cos the home was above their limit of about tuppence a week. So poor mum would have had to move to the smelly, stinky home that looked at us in surprise when we mentioned activities, that was within the LA Limit, or we would have to pay a top up of about £200 a week. I planned on doing that. We set aside money to make sure we could do it. We paid £55,000 for an insurance policy to pay about 70% of her care fees in 3 years time. We just wanted to know that she could stay where she was, where it had taken her a full year to settle, and didn't want her to go through that again.

How many of you can pay £55,000 for a care fees plan, and agree to paying £200 a week (£10,000 a year) to keep your relative there for maybe 20 years? That's £200,000. Don't all come rushing forward at once, I can't cope with the crush. We could afford to do it. It would mean we would have no money left to support ourselves in the same situation in perhaps 10 years time (we are both retired), but hey, who cares about us? We both took on part-time jobs in retirement to try to support mum. We are still doing them after her death. We are fortunate that we are able to, many people are not.

We won't starve, I don't think, but the situation is dire and unfair, and basically cruel.

My soap box.

Why is dementia not a nursing need? Why is it classed in the same category as someone who just wants to go into a care home? My friend's mother decided, age about 85, that she didnt want to live at home alone anymore, so she went into a care home. All paid by the state - cos she had no dementia, she had a choice of many homes. There was one that suited her, within the council's budget so in she went. Get dementia added and you can add another £200 a week to the bill. Who pays that? You and Me.

Don;t get me wrong, I am no head-banging socialist. I just don't see that the system is at all fair for people with dementia (or any other illness needing 24-hour care), to be classed as non-nursing. My MP told me I was lucky that my mother only had to pay for "hotel costs", and when I asked him to name me a hotel that would supervise medication 3 times a day, monitor my mother's movements in the dead of night (she was a wanderer), administer the anti-fungal cream to her bare bottom, bath her with the the use of a hoist, and spoon feed her at mealtimes, he declined to respond.

I can't get to grips with the current lot of politicians. Do none of them have elderly relatives with dementia? Are they all too young? Are they all too wealthy? I am waiting for a politician to tell us about his own experience with his mother or father. Have we had one do that? I don't recall.

If not, why not? There's 600-odd of them dammit. Sure some of them have a parent with a dementia-related illness and some experience of the tortuous system of getting funding for them. The first one that comes along gets my vote.

Just got off the soap box,and going to bed.

Margaret
 

worried girl

Registered User
Jan 1, 2010
25
0
Hampshire

My concern and I have no doubt others may be affected, that by investing her assets she now falls into a higher tax bracket and is now being taxed quite heavily. It's a 'double whammy' in every respest because the income she receives from her investments to pay for her care is taxed.


Nobody replied to my post so it might appear that people haven't considered care needs annuities.
I have only delved a little bit in the past in preparation for what may be needed in the future but one advantage as far as I could understand is that the 'income' paid from the annuity was tax free.

I'd have thought many people further down the line than me would have considered this.....or is it just little known?...or do people not like to gamble with life expectancy statistics?
 

Izzy

Volunteer Moderator
Aug 31, 2003
74,457
0
72
Dundee
To add to what Alfjess said - you don't get AA if you get personal care in Scotland (in fact I'm not sure what the situation is with regard to AA in Scotland) and if you get Nursing Care in England it is now a maximum of £146.30.

I must confess it drives me nuts when people assume that people in Scotland get a much better deal over this. In fact, it seems much harder to get NHS CC in Scotland, which is really where the responsibility lies.

My mum gets higher rate AA and her Carers who come in 3 times a day are free due to free personal care.