Care home fees

[ElizabethWindsor]

Hi.. relatively new to this. My Dad was assessed by LA and deemed to need residential care. Under £20k in bank but foreign joint property amounting to £87k tops. Joint owner wouldnt sell so LA was under pressure to provide care. LA paying care home on ongoing contract with home but they are making the payments as a third party, not as LA funding. They did part financial assessment but just deemed him as full cost so just sent email to say he would have to pay £275 per week from his pension. They could not do deferred payment agreement as property not in UK and no other agreement has been signed between us or LA about any repayment of money. We just signed care home agreement that states LA as ongoing 3rd party payer.
I’m now receiving invoices for full amount and final demands but LA have said ignore them and let them know when the property is sold. They also confirmed that there is no DPA on property.
Obviously if property ever in a position to sell, i accept that he would have to start paying full amount until new thresholds come in but do we have to repay previous amounts LA have chosen to pay as 3rd party?
Dad is happy and well looked after.

 

[Jessbow]

Sounds like they are expecting you to pay for his care from the house proceeds.
Who ever part owns it with him will either have to sell & give him his half, or just give him half the value to repay the LA for his care

 

[Kevinl]

As the property is abroad the laws of that country could be a...complication should we say, local laws and jurisdiction would cover the foreign property even where it is a UK owned asset has it been willed to someone else if the worst comes to it. If he's left his share and the local authority (UK) have not been able to put a charge on it, frankly who knows, it might not be worth their while persuing, the claim abroad.
Interesting question, would you be happy to name the country, don't need an address or anything just a country, people post on here from all over the world, local knowledge may be available no point in quoting UK laws to you if they don't apply. K

 

[nitram]

Have the LA disregarded the property until it is sold and because they can't find a placement at their rate paying third party top up?

 

[ElizabethWindsor]

As the property is abroad the laws of that country could be a...complication should we say, local laws and jurisdiction would cover the foreign property even where it is a UK owned asset has it been willed to someone else if the worst comes to it. If he's left his share and the local authority (UK) have not been able to put a charge on it, frankly who knows, it might not be worth their while persuing, the claim abroad.
Interesting question, would you be happy to name the country, don't need an address or anything just a country, people post on here from all over the world, local knowledge may be available no point in quoting UK laws to you if they don't apply. K

The country is Portugal and the Will would be intestate as it only mentions properties which are now sold (in my fathers sole name) and funds then used to purchase fully the property in Portugal.

 

[ElizabethWindsor]

Have the LA disregarded the property until it is sold and because they can't find a placement at their rate paying third party top up?

The LA have not disregarded the property but have not really completed the financial assessment as they have not taken into funds my father would need for maintenance and insurance etc. However they have said they have completed the financial assessment and deemed him full cost. As we wanted him in a home near us, our part of the country is hugely cheaper from the LA authority he came from so they very quickly agreed with the home to pay. As I said they are paying the full amount as a third party not LA. They are then invoicing my father for the full amount of £974 per week but have said he can pay £275 in the interim but there is no signed agreement or anything saying about repaying the rest.

 

[ElizabethWindsor]

Hi.. relatively new to this. My Dad was assessed by LA and deemed to need residential care. Under £20k in bank but foreign joint property amounting to £87k tops. Joint owner wouldnt sell so LA was under pressure to provide care. LA paying care home on ongoing contract with home but they are making the payments as a third party, not as LA funding. They did part financial assessment but just deemed him as full cost so just sent email to say he would have to pay £275 per week from his pension. They could not do deferred payment agreement as property not in UK and no other agreement has been signed between us or LA about any repayment of money. We just signed care home agreement that states LA as ongoing 3rd party payer.
I’m now receiving invoices for full amount and final demands but LA have said ignore them and let them know when the property is sold. They also confirmed that there is no DPA on property.
Obviously if property ever in a position to sell, i accept that he would have to start paying full amount until new thresholds come in but do we have to repay previous amounts LA have chosen to pay as 3rd party?
Dad is happy and well looked after.

I have also since read on a solicitors blog that the LA could have used discretion to disregard the property given the fact it has been on the market for over ten years and recently because the joint owner was blocking a recent offer from a buyer deeming that my father’s half of a joint property wasn’t worth anything if the other owner wouldn’t sell. The LA has not chosen to use their discretion.

 

[Rayreadynow]

I dont believe that the Local Authority can be making 3rd Party top-ups as this is not allowed. If the LA are invoicing your father for payment then they will expect him to pay at a later date.

 

[Jessbow]

If your father co owns a property the co-owner would surely have to meet the costs of insurance & maintainance if he wont sell.

ufortunately his needs have to be paid for before his property needs, and its very doubtful they will make him an allowance for this
discretion to disregard the property has very specific criteria applied, and usually concerns family and dependants who would be thus homeless, not holiday homes abroad

 

[ElizabethWindsor]

I dont believe that the Local Authority can be making 3rd Party top-ups as this is not allowed. If the LA are invoicing your father for payment then they will expect him to pay at a later date.

I know.. it’s a bit of an unusual case.. it was in my father’s best interests for the LA to pay for care as he was not in a pleasant situation living with his ex partner. The care home agreement boxes literally do say LA, Self, Third Party funding and it is the Third Party funding on an ongoing basis by the council that is ticked..

 

[ElizabethWindsor]

If your father co owns a property the co-owner would surely have to meet the costs of insurance & maintainance if he wont sell.

ufortunately his needs have to be paid for before his property needs, and its very doubtful they will make him an allowance for this
discretion to disregard the property has very specific criteria applied, and usually concerns family and dependants who would be thus homeless, not holiday homes abroad

Yes.. very unusual case.. co-owner not paying anything and did block a proposed sale earlier this year despite the property being on the market for over ten years.

 

[Jessbow]

Third party funding is ....you!
Well, its usually you, or another family member

Why would they tick two boxes? they either pay the whole fee, or they pay part fees and a third party makes up the difference- it cannot be you dad.

 

[ElizabethWindsor]

Third party funding is ....you!
Well, its usually you, or another family member

Why would they tick two boxes? they either pay the whole fee, or they pay part fees and a third party makes up the difference- it cannot be you

 

[ElizabethWindsor]

As you can see.. the third party is the council.

 

[nitram]

As you can see.. the third party is the council.

Is the council contracted with the home at £974 which includes a top up and expecting top up to be paid to it by other than the resident?
This method means all top up fee increases by the home are sent to the council.

This would show as council paying third party top up home's account.

Care home top-up fees

What care home top-up fees are and when you might have to pay them.

www.independentage.org

 

[ElizabethWindsor]

Is the council contracted with the home at £974 which includes a top up and expecting top up to be paid to it by other than the resident?
This method means all top up fee increases by the home are sent to the council.

This would show as council paying third party top up home's account.

This particular council is not anywhere near the home.. the council my father came from is hundreds of miles away.

 

[Rayreadynow]

Has the comment been put in the wrong box on the form. A local council can never be a third party as I understand it.

 

[maggie6445]

Just a thought....if the paying LA is funding at a rate lower than their usual LA rate because the home is in cheaper area ,would it cause computer accounting problems to call it LA funded?

And because the home is accommodating a LA placed client at higher rate than the homes LA it calls it third party funded.
In other words ,is it using the funding phrases to assist the account depts recording systems?

 

[Rayreadynow]

-If the form was completed by the Care Home it could be their misunderstanding of the 3rd Party description. I have seen payments made by the LA split into two separately invoiced payments i.e. £1200 split into £600 and £600 because the £1200 was above the council funding level.

-I think the form you showed has been completed incorrectly. If the council were making a contribution it should have been stated in the 'Local Authority Contribution' box.

-The 'Third Party' box can be an organisation such as a charity but not the Local Authority.

 

[Dave63]

I thought the way it works is that the top up is paid direct to the council and the council then pay the care home? If that's the way it works then technically it's the council paying the top up and they're acting as the middleman between the payee and the care home? If that's right then the correct box has been ticked as the payment is coming from the LA?

What I know about top ups you can write on the back of a matchbox so I'm just guessing.