Can they do this?

[gillybean]

Desperate situation, Mum is in hospital, upshot is she has been in there 7 weeks, we were awarded chc last Weds and now they say that I need to find a suitable bed by this Wednesday otherwise they will move her.
She needs an EMI bed, there are 2 which haven't met the requirements of the CQC reports, one admitted they didn't have the staff, one you wouldn't put your dog in and there's another that I haven't looked at but is miles away, she is on 4 waiting lists no nos 2,3 4 and the one we want is she's No.19 out of 21.
I feel threatened, bullied and under stress and there is a second letter for me to pick up from the ward.
Anything I can do to stop this rollercoaster that I'm on and feeling out of control?

 

[Brogues]

Where exactly are they saying they will move her to? They HAVE to act in your mums best interests - I wish I was more help I hope someone with expertise arrives soon x

 

[Saffie]

Can you not contact the CHC team for help?
I was placed in a position of being bullied to accept a bed in a home I didn't like for my husband though he didn't have CHC funding.
It was a community hospital for mental health, not an acute one, and my husband had been there for 6 months. Plenty of vacancies too.
Fortunately a space became available in a home I liked so a crisis was averted but it's a rotten situation to be in.

 

[Wirralson]

Desperate situation, Mum is in hospital, upshot is she has been in there 7 weeks, we were awarded chc last Weds and now they say that I need to find a suitable bed by this Wednesday otherwise they will move her.
She needs an EMI bed, there are 2 which haven't met the requirements of the CQC reports, one admitted they didn't have the staff, one you wouldn't put your dog in and there's another that I haven't looked at but is miles away, she is on 4 waiting lists no nos 2,3 4 and the one we want is she's No.19 out of 21.
I feel threatened, bullied and under stress and there is a second letter for me to pick up from the ward.
Anything I can do to stop this rollercoaster that I'm on and feeling out of control?

Short answer is yes, they can, but there are some things you can do to increase the chances of getting the outcome you want, although success is not guaranteed. You may slow things down to a more manageable pace, but you probably won't stop them altogether.

Normal practice is for the hospital and CCG (assuming you are in England) or Health Board (Wales/Scotland) to offer relatives a short (and as you have found out it can be very short) time to find a bed. (Similar procedures apply to MHA 83 s.117 funding although LAs pay in that case.) Usually they ask you to nominate 3. The legal obligation on the hospital is to make reasonable provision for onward care - this means in practice that provided the home is assessed as meeting your mother's needs. If the home has EMI registration or equivalent (I understand that term is obsolete but widely used still) then that is likely to meet the obligation. I'd suggest legal advice (I know I always say this) but a short solicitor's letter explaining your objections to the homes that failed CQC and the others and asking for a brief period to see if you can get a vacancy in your preferred home or one which you can accept. But ultimately the CCG is paying and it has most of the choice. It is supposed to consult with families, but that does not give you an absolute veto.

Sorry if this sounds grim, but the reality is pretty much as I've described.

W

 

[gillybean]

Oh my God, I'm in such a state, had to leave work early....I tried to follow up those she's on the waiting list for but obviously in 48 hours nothing had changed.
They are saying they are under pressure to move her, I fully understand that, but I am doing my utmost to find her something suitable. For example I called 14 homes on Wednesday and visited 5, I can't magic beds out of thin air, the nurse said I needed to look at those which actually HAD beds and get her assessed, I have until Weds to make that decision. I'm feeling so under pressure, it's like my Mum is a piece of meat, she's my Mum I don't want her to go anywhere.

 

[gillybean]

Short answer is yes, they can, but there are some things you can do to increase the chances of getting the outcome you want, although success is not guaranteed. You may slow things down to a more manageable pace, but you probably won't stop them altogether.

Normal practice is for the hospital and CCG (assuming you are in England) or Health Board (Wales/Scotland) to offer relatives a short (and as you have found out it can be very short) time to find a bed. (Similar procedures apply to MHA 83 s.117 funding although LAs pay in that case.) Usually they ask you to nominate 3. The legal obligation on the hospital is to make reasonable provision for onward care - this means in practice that provided the home is assessed as meeting your mother's needs. If the home has EMI registration or equivalent (I understand that term is obsolete but widely used still) then that is likely to meet the obligation. I'd suggest legal advice (I know I always say this) but a short solicitor's letter explaining your objections to the homes that failed CQC and the others and asking for a brief period to see if you can get a vacancy in your preferred home or one which you can accept. But ultimately the CCG is paying and it has most of the choice. It is supposed to consult with families, but that does not give you an absolute veto.

Sorry if this sounds grim, but the reality is pretty much as I've described.

W

Thanks, I thought this might be the case. I will try to write my own letter, outlining what I have done and my findings why I don't think some can meet her needs, futile I know but I have to fight for her.

 

[Wirralson]

Thanks, I thought this might be the case. I will try to write my own letter, outlining what I have done and my findings why I don't think some can meet her needs, futile I know but I have to fight for her.

gb

Having been in the same situation with my mum (albeit s117 MHA83 rather than CHC) I understand all too well the pressures you're under. You may make some "wriggle room" for your mum but, in essence they are entitled to say "you make the choice within this time limit, or we will make it for you". Harsh, but that's how it is.

W

 

[gillybean]

gb

Having been in the same situation with my mum (albeit s117 MHA83 rather than CHC) I understand all too well the pressures you're under. You may make some "wriggle room" for your mum but, in essence they are entitled to say "you make the choice within this time limit, or we will make it for you". Harsh, but that's how it is.

W

I know...backs to the wall, terrible situation, feel hopeless, despondant

 

[chick1962]

OMG I find this really cruel can't believe councils and hospital would treat ppl like that still fairly new on this journey and not at that stage yet but my heart goes out to you its such an unfair unkind and most undignified way to treat vulnerable ppl .........


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[gillybean]

OMG I find this really cruel can't believe councils and hospital would treat ppl like that still fairly new on this journey and not at that stage yet but my heart goes out to you its such an unfair unkind and most undignified way to treat vulnerable ppl .........


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Thanks, it's mercenary, I have yet to come across any compassion or empathy in hospital, I'm sure if it were their Mum.....

 

[chick1962]

It's just awful, isn't it !!!! Hard to believe in this day and age .... Extremely sad and lost for words sending you biggest hug ever xxx


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[annie h]

Gillybean, have you looked at the AS factsheet on Discharge from hospital?
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=173

Amongst other things it suggests you ask to see your hospital's discharge policy. There may be a couple of other things in there you can rely on to delay until there is a proper proposal. The home surely need to do an assessment whichever home she is allocated - they can't have done that yet can they? Obviously a good idea to insist you be told when she is being assessed.

Have you tried contacting the hospital Patient advice and Liaison Service? Of course deciding this sort of thing on a Friday is a useful ruse to make sure there is as little advice is available as possible but I find it hard to believe they will feel able to move her if you are calm, resolute, go prepared with some questions and ammunition. I'm sure they would be worried about the idea of moving her when you have strongly disagreed, and if you kick up enough of a stink I wouldn't have thought they would be able to go ahead without wider consultation that won't be possible a the weekend.

Stay strong!

 

[gillybean]

It's just awful, isn't it !!!! Hard to believe in this day and age .... Extremely sad and lost for words sending you biggest hug ever xxx


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Bless you, you're the same age as me I think 1962?

 

[gillybean]

Gillybean, have you looked at the AS factsheet on Discharge from hospital?
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=173

Amongst other things it suggests you ask to see your hospital's discharge policy. There may be a couple of other things in there you can rely on to delay until there is a proper proposal. The home surely need to do an assessment whichever home she is allocated - they can't have done that yet can they? Obviously a good idea to insist you be told when she is being assessed.

Have you tried contacting the hospital Patient advice and Liaison Service? Of course deciding this sort of thing on a Friday is a useful ruse to make sure there is as little advice is available as possible but I find it hard to believe they will feel able to move her if you are calm, resolute, go prepared with some questions and ammunition. I'm sure they would be worried about the idea of moving her when you have strongly disagreed, and if you kick up enough of a stink I wouldn't have thought they would be able to go ahead without wider consultation that won't be possible a the weekend.

Stay strong!

I did realise why she phoned at 3pm on a Friday, I was half expecting them to start the pressure treatment but not quite this soon, we only got chc 8 days ago. I did contact PALS ages ago and I think I posted their response on here, it was quite disappointing to say the least but I will try them again on Monday. I am never rude except today I asked if she wanted me to pluck beds out of think air I was so upset as I stated exactly what I've done to date, it annoyed me as she had talked to the beds agency who would have told her all I'd done anyway. I am trying to stay strong (I think my middle name is teflon) and am determined this won't spoil my weekend, I shall have a glass of wine to chill in a bit, desperate to sleep as I've been awake the last 2 nights until 3/4am then going to work, I don't know how I do my job most days.

 

[chick1962]

Bless you, you're the same age as me I think 1962?

Yes, I am 52 just lol my OH John is 65 this month. He got diagnosed in 2011 but it took a while . He has got early onset of Alzheimer's and Vascular dementia . Have you got much support from family and friends gillybean? Xx


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[gillybean]

Yes, I am 52 just lol my OH John is 65 this month. He got diagnosed in 2011 but it took a while . He has got early onset of Alzheimer's and Vascular dementia . Have you got much support from family and friends gillybean? Xx


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Well....just my hubby and my Auntie Mum's twin, I also have a disabled brother and have fought a few battles on his behalf too

Sorry to hear about John, so young....life is cruel

 

[chick1962]

Aww I am so sorry to hear that Gillybean . That's a lot to cope with bless . I don't get much help either but it's not too bad for me yet. Have 2 sons and 2 grandchildren but my sons don't really understand so I kind of muddle through xx


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[chick1962]

When I read some posts on here I want to cry as I find it heartbreaking to hear of all the battles and fights carers have to endure to get the care and help for their loved ones !!! It should not be like this xx


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[chick1962]

Well....just my hubby and my Auntie Mum's twin, I also have a disabled brother and have fought a few battles on his behalf too

Sorry to hear about John, so young....life is cruel

Sorry answered but didn't highlight your post


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[Spamar]

Nothing changes. I was given a week to get my father out of hospital and into care home - 20 years ago!