1. Expert Q&A: Protecting a person with dementia from financial abuse - Weds 26 June, 3:30-4:30 pm

    Financial abuse can have serious consequences for a person with dementia. Find out how to protect a person with dementia from financial abuse.

    Sam, our Knowledge Officer (Legal and Welfare Rights) is our expert on this topic. She will be here to answer your questions on Wednesday 26 June between 3:30 - 4:30 pm.

    You can either post questions >here< or email them to us at talkingpoint@alzheimers.org.uk and we'll answer as many as we can on the day.

  1. lizbet

    lizbet Registered User

    Feb 26, 2007
    20
    north yorkshire

    1. [/Am instate of disbelief and shock.
      After result of assessment for what have to pay Georges care fees.
      They have taken all his work pension, and most of his old age pension.
      I will have to apply for pension credit .

      George went all through the second world war in the Navy.
      Put in 40yrs at British Steel.
      Paid all his Tax and into Pension. LIST]] So when I have claimed for Pension credit, will be left with the sum of £119 per week that is the sum the Goverment claims a single person needs to live on.
      Feeling gutted. Lizbet Is this any way we should be treated??
     
  2. ishard

    ishard Registered User

    Jul 10, 2007
    98
    You know if you divorced George then you could cliam half his occuaptional pension, how stupid that half doesnt actually 'belong' to you as it does with divorce!
     
  3. lizbet

    lizbet Registered User

    Feb 26, 2007
    20
    north yorkshire
    divorce

    Hi ishard, now that is a thought, if was a few years younger and had the energy, would be tempted to go down that road.
    It has really made me feel ill. How can they do it to us.
    When I think of all the money this goverment does the waste and corruption then we are treated like this . The forgotten and disposable in old age.and sickness. lizbet
     
  4. ishard

    ishard Registered User

    Jul 10, 2007
    98
    Yes it isnt fair but then Ive been around long enough to know that no Gov is fair but its doubly unfair when it affects the vulnerable in our society.

    Ummm? I wonder if 'owning' half the pension in a divorce proceeding sets a precedent for you in this situation?
    The premise being that during a divorce the spouse is assumed to own half anyway, so why dont you?
     
  5. ishard

    ishard Registered User

    Jul 10, 2007
    98
    PS You know most solititors give you half an hour of their time free gratis and I would be tempted if I was you to find one and ask the question, "Does half my husband occupational pension belong to me as it does in a divorce case?" ;)

    You never know?
     
  6. hendy

    hendy Registered User

    Feb 20, 2008
    506
    West Yorkshire
    Dear Lizbet
    There's no justice- it should be against the law! This country discriminates against the aged and the sick and if your fall into both categories its a double blow. If you've worked and fought for your country its another insult again. Lizbet I can only sympathise. Keep posting.
    hendy
     
  7. Clive

    Clive Registered User

    Nov 7, 2004
    716
    HI Lizbet

    Go see your MP while you feel so strongly about this. He is the only one who can change the law.

    Ring his surgery now and make an appointment

    Unfortunately whilst the Government keep getting away with this scandal they will. They need all the money they can get as they waste so much.

    You have my sympathy

    But are you sure that you will not get half George’s pension ? I think you should ring the Alzheimer Society help line and get an independent view of the rules.

    Best Wishes

    Clive
     
  8. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    10,856
    Wigan, Lancs
    Lizbet,

    My understanding was that 50% of occupational pensions, personal pensions and retirement annuity contracts would be disregarded, but this only applies in the case of a spouse, not a co-habitee.

    I will see what I can find in the CRAG regulations.
     
  9. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    10,856
    Wigan, Lancs
    This is an extract from CRAG (Charging for Residential Accommodation Guide):-

    Occupational pensions, personal pensions and retirement annuity contracts

    8.024A Where a resident is in receipt of an occupational pension, personal pension, or payment from a retirement annuity contract and has a spouse, or civil partner, who is not living in the same residential care or nursing home, 50 per cent of the occupational pension, personal pension, or retirement annuity contract payment should be disregarded providing the resident passes 50 per cent on to his spouse. If the resident passes less than 50 per cent of any of these payments mentioned above, or none of them, to his spouse or civil partner, for whatever reason, then the disregard should not be applied and the full amount in payment to the resident should be taken into account. The only other time when 50 per cent of any of the payments a married resident or civil partner should cease to be disregarded is on death of the spouse or civil partner, or divorce.

    Schedule 3 para 10A
    8.024B Where an unmarried partner rather than a spouse or civil partner is involved the LA should consider their discretionary powers to vary the PEA (see 5.005). This requirement to disregard 50 per cent of the occupational pension does not alter the LA's discretion to vary the PEA in special circumstances (see 5.005).
    8.024C Where a spouse or civil partner is legally entitled to receive part of the occupational pension, personal pension and retirement annuity contract (e.g. by means of a Court Order) that part of the pension does not belong to the resident and should, therefore, not form part of his income. Fifty per cent of the amount actually in payment to the resident should be disregarded in accordance with 8.024A


    This is the link to Department of Health web site where there is a link to the full text of CRAG:-

    http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publication...tions/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_073650
     
  10. jenniferpa

    jenniferpa Volunteer Moderator

    Jun 27, 2006
    39,419
    Sue is quite correct. I'm not sure who told you that they would take all his occupational pension but assuming you are his spouse, they're wrong. This drives me nuts: CRAG is quite clear about this yet some bright spark thinks they can get away with this, and sometimes it seems as if we hear about something like this at least once a week.
     
  11. sue38

    sue38 Registered User

    Mar 6, 2007
    10,856
    Wigan, Lancs
    This is an extract from an Age Concern factsheet which summarises the CRAG regulations in plain English

    "7.2 One of a couple remaining in the family home - income

    If you are married or civil partners and your spouse who is in a home receives an occupational pension, personal pension or payment from a retirement annuity contract, then half this money can be paid to you by your spouse/civil partner. If so, the local authority has to disregard the amount passed back to the spouse when calculating how much your spouse/civil partner should pay towards the costs of their care in a home.

    If you do receive half your spouse/civil partner’s income from these sources, it may affect your entitlement to means tested benefits such as Pension Credit - because this amount will now count as part of your income.

    This disregard by the local authority does not apply to partners who are not married or in a civil partnership, which can cause difficulties for such partners if the person living in a care home has more resources than their partner remaining at home.
    Unmarried partners can ask the local authority to use its discretionary power to vary the amount of the personal expenses allowance - that is, the amount of £20.45 per week which it must ignore from the resident’s income. By varying the personal expenses allowance, your partner would be able to pay some of their income to you. Because this power is discretionary, the local authority may - but does not have to - do this.
    If the local authority does use its discretion, any income which you receive might affect other benefits to which you might be entitled - such as Pension Credit or Council Tax Benefit."

    Also have a look at this factsheet from Age Concern which goes into more detail:-

    http://www.ageconcern.org.uk/AgeConcern/Documents/FS39PAYINGFORCAREAPR07.pdf
     
  12. jackie1

    jackie1 Registered User

    Jun 6, 2007
    238
    Cheshire
    Dear Lizbet,
    Please get straight back onto them in the morning. Assuming that you are married they have no legal right to take all his work or occupational pension. You ARE entitled to half.

    I also suggest a letter to your MP, it worked like a dream for me.

    Take care

    Jackie
     
  13. hendy

    hendy Registered User

    Feb 20, 2008
    506
    West Yorkshire
    Hi lizbet
    I've just caught up with the posts on your thread. Such a lot of info... and advice. Plenty to follow up. Let us know. Are you feeling a little more positive now Lizbet?
    kind regards
    hendy
     

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