Annual review and CHC good news!

[Timeout]

Finally!

We had our annual review earlier this week. A lovely nurse assessor from the LHB and the social worker accepted what we said about Mums low mood and deteriorating behaviours, her refusal to engage in personal care etc. Shes completely immobile, doubly incontinent and has zero cognition.

I just had the most amazing phonecall from the LHB assessor and after long discussions with the social worker they have both agreed to put mums case to panel for CHC. She said that they have asked the care home to improve their notes as far as her behaviour is concerned but she felt there was a very good case for CHC and it will go to panel next week.

She didnt think there would be any objection so hopefully this is it! Years of fighting, going to independent panel etc. We feel shes slightly better than she was last year in fact so it just goes to show that a different nurse assessor that applies common sense and understands the well managed need argument will make all the difference.

Please keep your fingers crossed for us, we are all on a high at the moment and are very much hoping this is it.

So, if she is successful, what income does she lose? She gets DLA, a private pension and a small amount of state pension plus FNC at the moment.

Any insight into what will stop as far as income is concerned will be gratefully appreciated. Thanks

 

[Jessbow]

Finally!

We had our annual review earlier this week. A lovely nurse assessor from the LHB and the social worker accepted what we said about Mums low mood and deteriorating behaviours, her refusal to engage in personal care etc. Shes completely immobile, doubly incontinent and has zero cognition.

I just had the most amazing phonecall from the LHB assessor and after long discussions with the social worker they have both agreed to put mums case to panel for CHC. She said that they have asked the care home to improve their notes as far as her behaviour is concerned but she felt there was a very good case for CHC and it will go to panel next week.

She didnt think there would be any objection so hopefully this is it! Years of fighting, going to independent panel etc. We feel shes slightly better than she was last year in fact so it just goes to show that a different nurse assessor that applies common sense and understands the well managed need argument will make all the difference.

Please keep your fingers crossed for us, we are all on a high at the moment and are very much hoping this is it.

So, if she is successful, what income does she lose? She gets DLA, a private pension and a small amount of state pension plus FNC at the moment.

Any insight into what will stop as far as income is concerned will be gratefully appreciated. Thanks

She will lose FNC payment.

I think she will no longer be eligible for DLA- if her care is funded, she wouldnt need to receive that to pay for her care anyway.


HC Funding Is not mean tested in any way.

Her state and private pension will remain hers

 

[lemonjuice]

Finally!

We had our annual review earlier this week. A lovely nurse assessor from the LHB and the social worker accepted what we said about Mums low mood and deteriorating behaviours, her refusal to engage in personal care etc. Shes completely immobile, doubly incontinent and has zero cognition.

I just had the most amazing phonecall from the LHB assessor and after long discussions with the social worker they have both agreed to put mums case to panel for CHC. She said that they have asked the care home to improve their notes as far as her behaviour is concerned but she felt there was a very good case for CHC and it will go to panel next week.

She didnt think there would be any objection so hopefully this is it! Years of fighting, going to independent panel etc. We feel shes slightly better than she was last year in fact so it just goes to show that a different nurse assessor that applies common sense and understands the well managed need argument will make all the difference.

Please keep your fingers crossed for us, we are all on a high at the moment and are very much hoping this is it.

So, if she is successful, what income does she lose? She gets DLA, a private pension and a small amount of state pension plus FNC at the moment.

Any insight into what will stop as far as income is concerned will be gratefully appreciated. Thanks

I do so hope for your sake it is successful.

However in my mother's case she has twice gone 'to panel' and then be refused. In fact at the annual review last November the CHC assessor noted how mother had 'stabilised', well there's little more 'to go', other than an ability to breathe, so it wasn't even forwarded to panel as it wouldn't be successful. Despite 5 months of regular episodes of ASCs , which were becoming more frequent than in previous years. I think Health Authorities strapped for cash may well set the bar high so fewer people qualify. We live in an area with well above the average for people aged over 90 and suffering dementia.

If she is successful in being awarded it, they will, I would have thought, take her pensions to help fund it. Though she should be 'allowed' a certain amount of money per week for personal expenses.
AA will need to be cancelled, comes from the same source and of course the FNC will cease

 

[lemonjuice]

I have just done a search for this and it appears that if CHC funding is successful pensions will continue to be paid to the person?

Forgive me for thinking this is slightly odd. For someone in the stage of needing CHC funding they probably have few 'personal needs', so why would they need a full pension?
When other self-funders are struggling and spending vast amounts of life savings to fund others, this seems to me to be somewhat analogous?
If they have a partner still living and maintaining a property I can see the point but if they are on their own what would the pension be needed for? I know evn cutting my mother's hair is difficult because of neck contracture, so monthly expendiuture is only foot care and toiletries.

 

[Timeout]

Thanks, I did ask the lady from the LHB what she thought our chances were and she said she couldn't see any reason why it would be refused. We haven't even completed a DST with them, she said her and the social worker were both entirely in agreement that mum should be awarded it and they completed the domains themselves and agreed the outcome between the two of them.

Thanks for the info about the pensions too, I had a feeling the DLA and AA would stop (plus the FNC of course) but wasnt sure about pensions.

For all of you fighting away, keep going, there are some very good, compassionate assessors out there as is evidenced here. I'm sure if we'd had the assessor we'd had last time we wouldnt have been so lucky.

 

[Rosnpton]

Nice that it looks like something positive may be happening- even if it takes a whi,e to finalise. Fingers and toes crossed
Ros

 

[Timeout]

It almost feels too good to be true to be honest. This time last year mum seemed much worse, very poorly and the nurse assessor then was quite frankly horrible, didnt even see mum and wouldnt listen to a word we said. When we complained it appeared to get her back up even more and we got nowhere at all.
This time the assessor was absolutely lovely, spent a lot of time with mum, spoke at length to the care home staff to get a really good picture of her. Its made all the difference.

 

[Pete R]

Forgive me for thinking this is slightly odd. For someone in the stage of needing CHC funding they probably have few 'personal needs', so why would they need a full pension?

I find that comment somewhat strange.

CHC is funded solely by the NHS for individuals who are not in hospital and have been assessed as having a "primary health need".

CHC is free and so it should be, the same as if you were in hospital with any other disease or illness. Paying top up's for NHS care is not allowed.

Do you think that staff should be going around hospital wards working out which patients have"few personal needs" for their pension and arrange for it to be taken off them?

I do not think the system for those outside of CHC is fair and believe the conditions to gain CHC are set way too high but the state should not be allowed to take away your pension when you receive help that would be free in a hospital setting.

 

[lemonjuice]

I find that comment somewhat strange.

CHC is funded solely by the NHS for individuals who are not in hospital and have been assessed as having a "primary health need".

CHC is free and so it should be, the same as if you were in hospital with any other disease or illness. Paying top up's for NHS care is not allowed.

Do you think that staff should be going around hospital wards working out which patients have"few personal needs" for their pension and arrange for it to be taken off them?

I do not think the system for those outside of CHC is fair and believe the conditions to gain CHC are set way too high but the state should not be allowed to take away your pension when you receive help that would be free in a hospital setting.

I see what you're saying and if it would involve extra administration could be counter-productive. I'm talking about PWD who are longterm NH residents and have been so and likely to remain so, for years.

I was just pointing out, what to me, seems odd, that should my mother ever be awarded CHC funding I don't see a need for the government, and thereby us as citizens paying in tax, to continue paying my mother a pension when everything except personal needs will be paid for. Perhaps new clothes, say 4 nighties a year,currently we deal with that through birthday/Christmas presents for her. No need for other clothing , slippers etc now, so what would she spend that money on?

We gave up giving presents to family many years ago, when she was no longer able to particpate in the pleasure of giving them and also to eke out her savings as long as possible to ensure we can keep her in the same NH, so there is 'no longer a precedent' to restart that practice.

Cutting her hair is problemtic, as I've said.

All it would do is build up in her bank account, not being able to be used for top-ups of course and yet not being able to effect her QoL in any way.

I know it could be used to eventually give her grandchildren some inheritance, which as it stands they will not get, but I just wonder about the logicality of why SS take the pension to help fund the care, yet CHC doesn't? Eventually whether funded via SS or NHS all the money comes out of our taxes?

 

[Pete R]

so what would she spend that money on?

As it is her money whatever she/PoA wants. It is her money and it would be very wrong and dangerous for the state to pop along and say "We don't think you need it any more so we are going to take it off you".

If it cannot be used to improve her standard of life then personally I would save it. CHC can be withdrawn at heck of a lot quicker than it is given and it can be added to pot from the sale of the house.

With regard to social care and when you ask the state for help then I have no problem with the state pensions/benefits being used to pay for that care but I do not believe a private pension should.

 

[Jessbow]

CHC can be awarded o someone living at home ( its not as common, but it does happen)

Who/what would pay for their food/bills etc is person automatically stopped because they were CHC funded?

 

[lemonjuice]

CHC can be awarded to someone living at home ( its not as common, but it does happen)

Who/what would pay for their food/bills etc is person automatically stopped because they were CHC funded?

I get your point Jessbow. Is much more complicated than it first appears.

 

[nitram]

It's even more complicated.

With CHC in a domestic situation the benefits that stop after 28 days in hospital do not stop, e.g. AA is continued. Residential CHC is treated as if the person was in hospital.

 

[Raggedrobin]

First, congrats Timeout and fingers crossed for you.

I also see Lemonjuice's point. At the moment my Mum's pension goes towards her care home costs. In some ways it seems to me that it should still do that if she got NHS funding, to keep the NHS costs down. It is the problem of us having these two parallel systems of council and NHS funding. THe whole system really needs an overhaul, but whenever ideas are mooted, they don't see to be properly thought through and become politicised. It ought to be a cross-party thing, to sort it out. But I suppose whatever is done, some people will end up worse off. Tricky.

 

[Timeout]

Well, we are still waiting for the official letter as it has gone through one panel and passed so just waiting on the finance team to pass it and it should be in place, backdated to the date of the review at the beginning of May. The assessor said that it will be approved, no problem. Still cant get my head around what has changed between now and a year ago when we failed to get it but hey ho we aren't complaining. Just seems like a total lottery and dependent on the nurse assessor really taking the time to assess properly.