Agents offering to support application for CHC funding

[maybell]

My mother in-law has recently moved in to a residential care home and my husband thinks there's a chance she's entitled to LA funding.
A conversation with a representative from a company has convinced him that we have a good case and he's been quoted between £4000 - 7000 to find out.
Personally I'm a bit sceptical; at 85 my mother in-law is in good physical health, she has a diagnosis of mixed dementia but continues to present as a lively, chatty, sociable woman . Recently there have been reports of some 'aggressive' behaviour, (she's become rather possessive towards one of the male residents) and a psychiatrist has recommended low dose risperidone to deal with this.
I'm concerned that this company's motives are based on their own financial incentive rather than a realistic outcome and would be interested to know if others have any experience of this kind of situation.

 

[Wildflowerlady]

I would be very sceptical of this myself as my understanding is CHC funding is extremely difficult to get and personally from how you describe your MIL think it's very unlikely even given she has some aggressive tendancies. Medication might help her so I think everything will be taken into account. What happens if you pay this company and you don't end up getting the CHC funding they keep all the money?
I don't have any actual experience with CHC funding but I know I did ask this question when I attended some introduction to dementia evenings when dad was diagnosed. I was told it's very, very hard to get. Dad has mixed dementia too and sadly he is now on the brink of being admitted to a CH as carers going into him are struggling due to his verbal abuse and now physical threats, we are waiting for a placement . Dad will get some LA funding and both his pensions will be used towards his care. I don't think there is any chance he would get CHC despite his various needs he is totally incontinent.
I personally would steer well clear but maybe someone else might be familiar with them and can give you some advice based on their actual experience. Good luck.

 

[Duggies-girl]

I wouldn't go near them either. The hospice sorted out CHC for dad. He wasn't in a care home but they provided carers twice a day for dad because he had terminal cancer. We only had the carers for 2 weeks before dad died but they were very good.

CHC is very hard to get and to be honest your MIL does not sound like she would qualify but my experience is limited and I may be wrong.

I do know that even if CHC is granted for someone, it is reviewed after 3 months or so and is often taken away after this period of time and if this happened you would have to start again so again I would steer clear.

 

[Sarasa]

I'd steer clear of this too. I have no direct experience of applying for CHC but I'm sure the home would have flagged it up if they thought it was a possibility and from what you've said your MiL doesn't sound like she'd qualify for it. I'm a also always suspicious of companies that want to charge you for things that you can get sorted for free.
Maybe your husband could talk to the manager or an experienced carer at the home and get their input about this?

 

[Louise7]

My mother in-law has recently moved in to a residential care home and my husband thinks there's a chance she's entitled to LA funding.

CHC funding is paid by the NHS, not the LA, and is based on a primary health need rather than a diagnosis. I've been through the CHC assessment process twice and as others have said, it is very difficult to get as there needs to be a high level of severity/complexity in relation to health/care needs. Somebody posted here a while ago about having used a company to help them to get CHC and what started as an estimate for a few thousand pounds quickly spiralled into a huge amount, with a fee attached to every letter, phone call and document read. They ended up with a very large bill in the tens of thousands and still no entitlement to CHC. Sometimes people get so focussed on doing everything they can to preserve their ‘inheritance’ from being spent on care home fees that they end up spending the lot instead! If your mum needs help with paying her care fees then you should apply for a financial assessment from the local authority to see if they will contribute towards the costs.

Does anyone hold financial LPA for your mother in law? If so, they are legally obliged to act in your mother in law’s best interests financially so will need to think very carefully about whether paying thousands of pounds of her money to a company with absolutely no guarantee of a positive outcome is in her best interests. Plus if she does require financial assistance from the local authority in the future they may treat the payments as a deprivation of assets. As @Sarasa has mentioned, the care home will be experienced in the CHC process, and know your mother in law’s care needs, so will be able to provide a much better indication of whether she stands a chance of getting CHC than a company which profits from trying to convince people that they do.

Your husband might also find it useful to have a read through this factsheet which explains the CHC process. He will see that your mother in law will need to get through the initial CHC checklist first before a full assessment for CHC eligibility would be conducted, which may be difficult if she is in good physical health. Bear in mind that CHC assessments, other than urgent assessments for those who are close to death, are currently on hold due to the covid situation so it may be some time before any assessment would take place.

When does the NHS pay for care?

This booklet explains what NHS continuing healthcare is, who can get it, how assessments are carried out, and what to do if it is not awarded.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

 

[hooperswan]

CHC funding is paid by the NHS, not the LA, and is based on a primary health need rather than a diagnosis. I've been through the CHC assessment process twice and as others have said, it is very difficult to get as there needs to be a high level of severity/complexity in relation to health/care needs. Somebody posted here a while ago about having used a company to help them to get CHC and what started as an estimate for a few thousand pounds quickly spiralled into a huge amount, with a fee attached to every letter, phone call and document read. They ended up with a very large bill in the tens of thousands and still no entitlement to CHC. Sometimes people get so focussed on doing everything they can to preserve their ‘inheritance’ from being spent on care home fees that they end up spending the lot instead! If your mum needs help with paying her care fees then you should apply for a financial assessment from the local authority to see if they will contribute towards the costs.

Does anyone hold financial LPA for your mother in law? If so, they are legally obliged to act in your mother in law’s best interests financially so will need to think very carefully about whether paying thousands of pounds of her money to a company with absolutely no guarantee of a positive outcome is in her best interests. Plus if she does require financial assistance from the local authority in the future they may treat the payments as a deprivation of assets. As @Sarasa has mentioned, the care home will be experienced in the CHC process, and know your mother in law’s care needs, so will be able to provide a much better indication of whether she stands a chance of getting CHC than a company which profits from trying to convince people that they do.

Your husband might also find it useful to have a read through this factsheet which explains the CHC process. He will see that your mother in law will need to get through the initial CHC checklist first before a full assessment for CHC eligibility would be conducted, which may be difficult if she is in good physical health. Bear in mind that CHC assessments, other than urgent assessments for those who are close to death, are currently on hold due to the covid situation so it may be some time before any assessment would take place.

When does the NHS pay for care?

This booklet explains what NHS continuing healthcare is, who can get it, how assessments are carried out, and what to do if it is not awarded.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

That profession sounds like a license to print money,I try to avoid them at all costs

 

[hooperswan]

CHC funding is paid by the NHS, not the LA, and is based on a primary health need rather than a diagnosis. I've been through the CHC assessment process twice and as others have said, it is very difficult to get as there needs to be a high level of severity/complexity in relation to health/care needs. Somebody posted here a while ago about having used a company to help them to get CHC and what started as an estimate for a few thousand pounds quickly spiralled into a huge amount, with a fee attached to every letter, phone call and document read. They ended up with a very large bill in the tens of thousands and still no entitlement to CHC. Sometimes people get so focussed on doing everything they can to preserve their ‘inheritance’ from being spent on care home fees that they end up spending the lot instead! If your mum needs help with paying her care fees then you should apply for a financial assessment from the local authority to see if they will contribute towards the costs.

Does anyone hold financial LPA for your mother in law? If so, they are legally obliged to act in your mother in law’s best interests financially so will need to think very carefully about whether paying thousands of pounds of her money to a company with absolutely no guarantee of a positive outcome is in her best interests. Plus if she does require financial assistance from the local authority in the future they may treat the payments as a deprivation of assets. As @Sarasa has mentioned, the care home will be experienced in the CHC process, and know your mother in law’s care needs, so will be able to provide a much better indication of whether she stands a chance of getting CHC than a company which profits from trying to convince people that they do.

Your husband might also find it useful to have a read through this factsheet which explains the CHC process. He will see that your mother in law will need to get through the initial CHC checklist first before a full assessment for CHC eligibility would be conducted, which may be difficult if she is in good physical health. Bear in mind that CHC assessments, other than urgent assessments for those who are close to death, are currently on hold due to the covid situation so it may be some time before any assessment would take place.

When does the NHS pay for care?

This booklet explains what NHS continuing healthcare is, who can get it, how assessments are carried out, and what to do if it is not awarded.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

That profession sounds like a license to print money,I try to avoid them at all costs,and then you hear"But they have trained for 6 years to do this job at great cost"

 

[Louise7]

That profession sounds like a license to print money,I try to avoid them at all costs,and then you hear"But they have trained for 6 years to do this job at great cost"

I'm sure that they can offer useful help and advice for those with genuine CHC eligibility who are having difficulties in navigating through the process themselves but no amount of training can 'magic up' health problems and care needs that don't exist!

 

[kindred]

I'm sure that they can offer useful help and advice for those with genuine CHC eligibility who are having difficulties in navigating through the process themselves but no amount of training can 'magic up' health problems and care needs that don't exist!

I was awarded CHC 4 days after my husband died, but they did pay nearly £5000 for his last month of fees. Having been present at the process, I believe the most pertinent issue is how often would actual nursing have been required? How often would a trained nurse have needed to be present for the resident? I'd advise anyone trying for this to make a note of this, keep a diary of the times. warmest, Kindred.

 

[canary]

Having been present at the process, I believe the most pertinent issue is how often would actual nursing have been required? How often would a trained nurse have needed to be present for the resident?

That is my understanding too.
The trouble with dementia is that most of the things that require help do not need a qualified nurse. Needing help with washing and dressing, incontinence and having to be cleaned up afterwards, not being able to to shop, do laundry, housework, cook or even make a cup of tea or go out for a walk unaided, and even having to be fed and mobility loss requiring hoisting, can all be done by carers and do not need a qualified nurse. They are all considered social needs not health needs and, as such, do not count towards CHC.

Dont waste your money @maybell

 

[Jessbow]

Dont do it
Dont do it
Dont do it

CHC funding is based on a medical need, for which she needs a qualified nurse, rather than a carer.
LA funding is means tested- two completely different things

My ( Now late) mother was doubly incontinent , partially sighted Diabetic with Lewy bodies Dementia - she wasnt wasnt awarded CHC
She was then diagnosed with a heart condition (needed a major op) which was decided was innapropriate . She was then awarded CHC funding to live out the last 4 months of her life in a care home.

You have to have a MEDICAL need ( and a severe one at that) to stand a chance.

Absolutely nothing stops you applying yourselves- at worst you'll be turned down- why pay someone to apply for you?

 

[imthedaughter]

She will qualify for local authority funding if her savings are low and assets few. You don't need a broker or agent for this, you ask the LA to do a care and financial assessment.

I have just completed the process for my father who's care is now being paid for by the LA, and all his income expect for £24.90 personal allowance per week is paid to the LA.

 

[Banjomansmate]

I went through the process for The Banjoman, with the initial hospital assessment saying that he should qualify but once he was in the Care Home the second assessment managed to downplay his problems, meaning he didn’t qualify - what a surprise! I could have fought the process but as he qualified for LA funding like @imthedaughter ’s parent I decided it wasn’t worth the hassle as it wasn’t unreasonable for his income to pay for his living expenses and care.

 

[Elle3]

Definitely don't pay to apply for CHC funding, as other's have said, no amount of paid assistance will get you the funding if there isn't a need.

It seems we were one of the lucky ones who did get funding for my dad but this was following advice by my dad's Social worker and his care home, who both suggested we apply for CHC funding as they both thought he would qualify. My dad had a diagnosis of advanced dementia and no other illnesses. He qualified based mainly on his lack of communication skills, lack of cognition and behavioural issues.

The SW carried out the initial assessment, then referred him to the CHC team. They then came out to the care home to do the assessment. To assist with the claim, there needs to be lots of documented evidence to support each of the categories so the full support of the care home and social worker is required, without this you will be unlikely to get it. Even when you qualify the care home must continue to keep evidence of their need as the funding is reviewed at 3 months and then potentially yearly.

 

[Veritas]

My mother in-law has recently moved in to a residential care home and my husband thinks there's a chance she's entitled to LA funding.
A conversation with a representative from a company has convinced him that we have a good case and he's been quoted between £4000 - 7000 to find out.
Personally I'm a bit sceptical; at 85 my mother in-law is in good physical health, she has a diagnosis of mixed dementia but continues to present as a lively, chatty, sociable woman . Recently there have been reports of some 'aggressive' behaviour, (she's become rather possessive towards one of the male residents) and a psychiatrist has recommended low dose risperidone to deal with this.
I'm concerned that this company's motives are based on their own financial incentive rather than a realistic outcome and would be interested to know if others have any experience of this kind of situation.

Don't even think about it. Please. There is no way you'll get CHC (ie NHS) funding on the basis of what you've described here, and you'll be wasting money on a bunch of charlatans. If this company's representative really said they can make a good case for CHC funding they don't what they are talking about (or, worse, they do but don't mind fleecing people).

If it's LA funding you're looking for, that depends on the needs assessment and a financial assessment, and you don't need paid advisers to support you through that process either.

CHC funding is hard to get, but there is plenty of advice you don't have to pay for out there to help you with the process as and when you do need to go through it.

 

[fromnz123]

I cared for my mother for 6 years in my home, she was self funding , but we got CHC for the last 3 years of her life, once her needs were deemed to require nursing care. She was awarded 2 carers three times a day, with me providing care inbetween or pay for extra support. I was awarded 4 hours a week respite also.

The district nurse who had been visiting mum completed the forms for me where she evidenced mum's nursing care needs.

 

[Shedrech]

hi @maybell
if you are actually looking at the LA contributing to funding, this may help

Paying for dementia care in England

Dementia care isn't free, and you may need to pay for some of the care you or someone you know needs. We help you understand the different ways to pay for care, and the amount you might be expected to pay.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

and you contact the LA directly to request a financial assessment

if it's CHC funding being considered, have your husband speak with an advisor on the support line as they have a lot of knowledge of applying

Dementia Support Line

If you need dementia support, we’re here for you. Get personalised information, support and advice by calling us on 0333 150 3456.

www.alzheimers.org.uk

 

[Georgina63]

There is so much confusion and misinformation regarding CHC. You might be interested in the current campaign that has recently been launched to initiate a judicial review into CHC. https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/the-nhs-continuing-healthcare-scandal