Advice on banks which will set a daily ATM limit?

[warde]

My first post - am hoping there's someone out there who can pass on words of wisdom!

Mum as been recently diagnosed with Alzheimer's, it's early days and she lives independently and is doing really well.

However, I've got some concerns about her money management - in that she has on a couple of occasions, withdrawn large amounts of cash from her account - most recently today - almost £300 in 5 separate ATM transactions. Not sure if this is memory, judgement or a determination to enjoy herself while she can! To be fair - i can and have talked to her about this and she's keen to find away to limit herself and she suggested not taking her cash card next time she goes to bingo.

I called her bank to explain the situation and ask for some general advice on how to manage this, and asked if they could reduce the daily ATM withdrawal amount to £100 to be advised that their daily limit is £350 and there's no movement on this.

I was really shocked at the lack of flexibility and wondered if anyone has any better experiences with other banks.

thanks

 

[Pickles53]

The only idea I have is to suggest you look at getting LPA sorted for finance which would enable you to manage your mum's finances. Would she go for this if you sold it as a way to help her 'if she ever needs it'?

 

[warde]

"The only idea I have is to suggest you look at getting LPA sorted for finance which would enable you to manage your mum's finances. Would she go for this if you sold it as a way to help her 'if she ever needs it'?"

She'd be absolutely fine - she's already got me to set up internet banking so I can manage things - she's never been great with money anyway! And all her bills are done by direct debit and paid into a dd account as soon as her pension goes into the bank.

I'm going to make a start on looking into more formal things in place and have the AS factsheet on LPA to read and discuss with my brother.

To be honest though, I just want to support her to be as independent and in control as she can be for as long as she can be and at the moment she's doing well, but with pretty poor short term memory. Her bank suggested setting up LPA and me taking her card away and effectively giving her 'spends' and I don't think we need to do that just yet. She doesn't have cash reserves in her account, so it's not like there's a lot there that can disappear - but the worry is if she blows it all on pension day, she's got no money for the rest of the week. Bingo days are weds and sat - so a lower ATM limit would be the best solution in the short term.

I've discussed with her the idea of me moving money out of her current account into her savings account on the day her pension goes in and then moving it back later in the week - if it's not there, she can's spend it, and she was ok with that. I just thought the bank could have been more helpful.

 

[jenniferpa]

I think you should also check if the bank will allow her to overdraw her account (in the event that you move the money out and she uses the ATM to remove more money than is there). You could get into a situation where she takes out the money AND you have an overdraft fee to deal with.

 

[Beate]

You should be very careful talking to banks or dealing with someone's money without having set up LPA. They could decide she no longer has capacity and freeze her account. So please set it up as soon as possible.

 

[warde]

Beate, thank you - I had been thinking that might be an issue.

Jenniferpa - thanks - she currently has £100 overdraft limit and I have previously asked her if we could take it away. She was reluctant to do this - she's always used it ..part of her general lifelong money management approach - but she's gone overdrawn again today when she took all this money out.

 

[jenniferpa]

You'd have to check with the bank, and the terms of the account, but even if you took away the overdraft limit, it wouldn't necessarily stop her from overdrawing the account: just that they could then hit her with insufficient funds charges (which would make her even more overdrawn).

 

[cragmaid]

As a temporary measure....scratch through the magnetic strip on the back of the card.

 

[Witzend]

"The only idea I have is to suggest you look at getting LPA sorted for finance which would enable you to manage your mum's finances. Would she go for this if you sold it as a way to help her 'if she ever needs it'?"

She'd be absolutely fine - she's already got me to set up internet banking so I can manage things - she's never been great with money anyway! And all her bills are done by direct debit and paid into a dd account as soon as her pension goes into the bank.

I'm going to make a start on looking into more formal things in place and have the AS factsheet on LPA to read and discuss with my brother.

To be honest though, I just want to support her to be as independent and in control as she can be for as long as she can be and at the moment she's doing well, but with pretty poor short term memory. Her bank suggested setting up LPA and me taking her card away and effectively giving her 'spends' and I don't think we need to do that just yet. She doesn't have cash reserves in her account, so it's not like there's a lot there that can disappear - but the worry is if she blows it all on pension day, she's got no money for the rest of the week. Bingo days are weds and sat - so a lower ATM limit would be the best solution in the short term.

I've discussed with her the idea of me moving money out of her current account into her savings account on the day her pension goes in and then moving it back later in the week - if it's not there, she can's spend it, and she was ok with that. I just thought the bank could have been more helpful.

If your mother is amenable to the idea of the LPA then I would say for heaven's sake put it in place now. Later on, as dementia worsens, she might well become suspicious of your motives and refuse - this does often happen. The worse dementia gets, sadly, the less likely the person is to see the need for anyone else to help them manage finances, and huge headaches can be the result. Maybe your mother would never become suspicious, but it's as well to be aware of what may happen further down the line.

 

[Kevinl]

You should be very careful talking to banks or dealing with someone's money without having set up LPA. They could decide she no longer has capacity and freeze her account. So please set it up as soon as possible.

Seconded, be very careful what you tell the bank the minute they get a hint of incapacity they may freeze the account and that can cause all kinds of problems specially if money is tight or you pay by standing orders. One bank (not mentioning the name) but as they are now Scottish owned have some strange rules based more in Scottish law than English law.
Regrettable as has been said in the later stages to money paranoia can become a problem, could you start by offering to get the cash for her, put it in a place where she can access it and has the comfort of knowing she has money available and wean her off the cashpoint habit that way? Given the comfort of knowing there's a hundred quid in the vase on the mantelpiece or the biscuit tin under the bed that she can go and look at might help, possibly, I hope.
Best wishes
K

 

[lin1]

Hello
It might be a good idea to check if other banks would be amenable to a lower daily limit.

Sorry to bang on about LPAs I thought you might like to have a look through this government site about LPAs
https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/make-lasting-power

 

[jenniferpa]

I was wondering if a basic bank account might offer such restrictions?

 

[Linbrusco]

In New Zealand here the daily ATM limit is equivalent to GBP1000
Thankfully I have control over Mum & Dads bank accounts. I only leave enough in the account for Mum (with AD) to pay for her groceries and a bit extra. Dad has never had a card. If he did he would draw every last cent (or pence )

If the banking system in UK is like it is here in NZ, the daily ATM limit is a bank wide system limit for all customers. It cannot be lowered or increased for any one individual.

 

[MrsTerryN]

I am another one who agrees with getting the power of attorney. We did mums before thankfully as since August she has had significant paranoia about me stealing her money.
Mum has absolutely no idea what income she has.
She has money on an envelope in the office of the nursing home..
Also I gave her money on Sunday when we we out. Only $50 she didn't spend anything but today told me she doesn't have it anymore.
Mum doesn't know what Pensions she has as I have done all that.
The other problem we had was mother making over the counter withdrawals. The last big one was about a year ago of $5000 I have no idea where it went as even at that stage I was paying mum and dad's bills and buying all groceries

 

[Sheepteach]

Definitely go along the LPA route. My brother and I have a jointly and severally held LPA for our Dad, initially that caused problems because my brother was able to help himself to 'Bank of Dad', and also helping Dad to obtain cash which Dad then gave to him - LONG STORY!. With the LPA I have set the daily cash amount to £10, no problem! A bit extreme maybe, but my brother no longer has a card as he felt unable to cope with the responsibility,and my Dad has no idea how to use his card anymore. All transactions are card or cheque now - much easier to trace.

P.S. really like the idea of scratching the magnetic strip - wish I'd thought of that !!

 

[nmintueo]

With the LPA I have set the daily cash amount to £10, no problem!

That's a nice bank. Which one was it?

Remember, the original question arose because the bank in that case (which bank?) wasn't so helpful:

<bank> advised that their daily limit is £350 and there's no movement on this.

I was really shocked at the lack of flexibility and wondered if anyone has any better experiences with other banks.

In that case, I would say try another approach with the bank; careful persistence sometimes pays off, and what couldn't be done gets done.
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?66801#post879443

 

[EPS]

Lpa

I totally agree with those who have suggested getting an LPA in place. My late father had an EPA drawn up, at a time when both he and Mum were still in control of their faculties, but it meant that when my widowed mother started succumbing to dementia, I was able to register it and take control of the finances. I did that before she was diagnosed with dementia, and after she'd withdrawn £200 from the cashpoint for no apparent reason, and couldn't remember doing so. I'm fortunate that she doesn't mind me controlling her finances (indeed I would say she welcomes it). There is work at the outset - and I hated at the time taking the control - but I now have no regrets about doing so, it's a huge relief being able to keep an eye on her finances. Indeed I recommend that everyone, dementia or not, get an LPA drawn up. You never know when a loved one might need to step in for whatever reason!

 

[secondtimeround]

LPA, yes, do it! My brother and I activated the EPA my stepmother had set up after the rogue roofers had been round and conned her. With my aunt, I got her to activate the LPA at the point where she had crashed her car and had her licence taken away. When I got access to her account I found some very large withdrawals, several in one week, so I suspect she was being taken for a ride as well. We did have some upsets when she didn't understand where the cash I gave her had come from so after a while I just topped up her 'magic money drawer', it seemed to work.

 

[berkeley]

Hi I had similar problem with my husband and also the bank would not lower the amount that
could be withdrawn. I tried scratching the card but he got really upset when he couldn't get money
out. The solution I came up with was to open a savings account which operated with a cash card.
The maximum that could be withdrawn was the balance that was in that account. I simply
transferred a small amount into the account as necessary. Hope this helps

 

[Sheepteach]

Nmintueo - the one with the black horse!