Advice needed about LPOA

[FoxMulder]

In the few months I have been helping my mother's financial situation which was bought to my attention when she showed an invoice for arrears for her service charges. I contacted the company and told them she has alzehemier's Disease and they were most understanding. Last week the company sent me a email saying that my mother's arrears have not been paid. So I showed a copy of this email to my mother and she got very distressed about it. We went to her bank to check whether her arrears have been paid or not and check how whether her bank balance will be enough to cover the arrears and the next charges for services and ground rent. The bank adviser was most understanding and explained to my mother that her current bank balance would not be enough to pay for arrears and the next quarterly services and ground rent. I was shocked to learn that she has been withdrawing a lot of money out the atm machine. Everyday she goes to the shop and buys and hoards food which she doesn't opened and leave them lying around in the kitchen. The bank adviser told her she should closed her credit card account which she refused to do so. My mum was getting very upset upon hearing about her financial situation. I decided to pay off the outstanding arrears and contact the company to ask them if they would allow my mother pay monthly. After contacting them they were most accommodating but they won't accept payments by direct debit but standing order. As my mother is getting increasingly forgetful, I feel she will keep forgetting to pay this by standing order alone.
This has left me with a dilemma. Judging by the state of my mother's financial situation and spending, I feel it would be in her best interests if I would act as her LPOA. I am worried she will spiral further into debt and lose her home which she loves living in. The question is how do I approach this gently with her? Whenever I tried to help her, she tells she is fine and doesn't need any help. She changes the subjects or gets upset. I feel I am walking on eggshells. What is the best approach?

 

[marionq]

A firm discussion is the only way forward. Tell it as it is and that you will help and support her but she must work with you or her debt will drag her down. Pussy footing around her sensibilities will get you nowhere.

 

[Angie1996]

My dad has a residential flat, one of his payments is standing order, once it is set up, the money is taken each 12 weeks automatically. I just got him to sign the standing order form, took him to the bank and got it handed in.

I got LPOA in the end after a battle of 17 months, and in the end he done it with the help of the psychiatrist who asked him the questions. I only managed to get this done as he wanted his driving license back. You have to keep on at her and keep telling her why its needed.

I wish you the best of luck with this, as your mum sounds as stubborn as my dad. They really do not understand the implications of their actions at all, and the effect it has on us trying to help them

Regards
Angie

 

[Shedrech]

Hi FoxMulder
From what you've written, your mum was actually happy for you to go along with her to the bank and help her out - so actually she has already shown willing to accept your help
maybe, then, build on that willingness, say you just want to help out not take over - get all the POA forms (they're available online) and fill them in as far as you can (both finance and health and welfare) and have a friend of hers ready to sign concerning her capacity to understand what she is doing - just put it to her very matter of factly, no fuss, that you'd be happy to help her out again and if she signs the forms this will give you her permission. Do have someone as a joint and several Attorney or a replacement, just in case. And get the signed forms registered with DWP asap.
having the POA doesn't mean that your mum then has no input into her affairs, so she will still be able to take out money from the cashpoint; she is free to make 'silly' decisions as to what she spends her money on (only on her being deemed to have no capacity to run her affairs is the POA registered with the bank; then she will have no control, you will take over completely)
My understanding is that a standing order is an instruction from your mum to her bank to pay a fixed amount each month to whoever - she wouldn't have to remember to do anything, the payment will be made automatically - so do set one up.
as to the credit card - can you lose it? - or 'accidentally' scrape off the 3 numbers on the back so she can't use it over the phone?

it may well be that she will be relieved to have you officially able to help her, you never know

 

[arielsmelody]

If a the service charges are the same each month, I agree that a standing order which will automatically pay a fixed amount each month should be fine (or set up at whatever interval is appropriate).

But if the problem is that she is overspending, then there might not be enough money in the bank to pay the standing order when it was due, and you could end up with additional bank charges and all sorts of problems. For your own sake, if you don't want to end up with a huge headache to sort out later on, you need to persuade your mum to let you help with her finances.

Could you maybe set up a new bank account which does not have any credit facilities and transfer a fixed amount in there each month for your mum to draw out cash - then when she runs out she can't carry on and overspend.

 

[camkam]

In the few months I have been helping my mother's financial situation which was bought to my attention when she showed an invoice for arrears for her service charges. I contacted the company and told them she has alzehemier's Disease and they were most understanding. Last week the company sent me a email saying that my mother's arrears have not been paid. So I showed a copy of this email to my mother and she got very distressed about it. We went to her bank to check whether her arrears have been paid or not and check how whether her bank balance will be enough to cover the arrears and the next charges for services and ground rent. The bank adviser was most understanding and explained to my mother that her current bank balance would not be enough to pay for arrears and the next quarterly services and ground rent. I was shocked to learn that she has been withdrawing a lot of money out the atm machine. Everyday she goes to the shop and buys and hoards food which she doesn't opened and leave them lying around in the kitchen. The bank adviser told her she should closed her credit card account which she refused to do so. My mum was getting very upset upon hearing about her financial situation. I decided to pay off the outstanding arrears and contact the company to ask them if they would allow my mother pay monthly. After contacting them they were most accommodating but they won't accept payments by direct debit but standing order. As my mother is getting increasingly forgetful, I feel she will keep forgetting to pay this by standing order alone.
This has left me with a dilemma. Judging by the state of my mother's financial situation and spending, I feel it would be in her best interests if I would act as her LPOA. I am worried she will spiral further into debt and lose her home which she loves living in. The question is how do I approach this gently with her? Whenever I tried to help her, she tells she is fine and doesn't need any help. She changes the subjects or gets upset. I feel I am walking on eggshells. What is the best approach?

Hi, you may be too late to do an LPA, this has to be done when the donor (ie your mum) still has the capacity. It sounds as if she doesn't, which means you may not be able to do the LPA. I managed to get one for my mum just in time, otherwise I think you have to go to court and it costs much more. Good luck!

 

[netsy22]

In the few months I have been helping my mother's financial situation which was bought to my attention when she showed an invoice for arrears for her service charges. I contacted the company and told them she has alzehemier's Disease and they were most understanding. Last week the company sent me a email saying that my mother's arrears have not been paid. So I showed a copy of this email to my mother and she got very distressed about it. We went to her bank to check whether her arrears have been paid or not and check how whether her bank balance will be enough to cover the arrears and the next charges for services and ground rent. The bank adviser was most understanding and explained to my mother that her current bank balance would not be enough to pay for arrears and the next quarterly services and ground rent. I was shocked to learn that she has been withdrawing a lot of money out the atm machine. Everyday she goes to the shop and buys and hoards food which she doesn't opened and leave them lying around in the kitchen. The bank adviser told her she should closed her credit card account which she refused to do so. My mum was getting very upset upon hearing about her financial situation. I decided to pay off the outstanding arrears and contact the company to ask them if they would allow my mother pay monthly. After contacting them they were most accommodating but they won't accept payments by direct debit but standing order. As my mother is getting increasingly forgetful, I feel she will keep forgetting to pay this by standing order alone.
This has left me with a dilemma. Judging by the state of my mother's financial situation and spending, I feel it would be in her best interests if I would act as her LPOA. I am worried she will spiral further into debt and lose her home which she loves living in. The question is how do I approach this gently with her? Whenever I tried to help her, she tells she is fine and doesn't need any help. She changes the subjects or gets upset. I feel I am walking on eggshells. What is the best approach?

Go for LPA it takes a few weeks though, and your mum will have to agree and sign it - tell her it's so you can help her to sort out her money and stop her worrying about it. Be firm and tell her if she keeps on spending too much she will be in trouble. You will also have to get someone who has known her for 5 years to say she still has the capacity to agree to this. Don't ask the GP they charge you to do it. You can also get put on her bank account as a third party and get a card in your name. Then you will be able to directly control what she does with her money and cancel her card. What else is she spending money on? Extra food would not amount to that much surely? My mum was falling for scam companies who said she would win a lot of money and she kept buying stuff from the companies.

 

[Amy in the US]

I'm in the States, so our system is a bit different, but we also have a Power of Attorney that we can get, to act as someone's representative.

Even before my mother's dementia diagnosis, my mother would refuse to have conversations about finances and paperwork for the most part, and refused most assistance. I begged and pleaded on several occasions for her to sort out paperwork such as a will, PoA, health care PoA, et cetera, and she always refused.

I know now that some of that refusal was due to her undiagnosed, but present, Alzheimer's disease and memory loss.

After she was diagnosed (while sectioned in hospital after a crisis), through what I can only consider divine intervention, I was able to the get the PoA and I'm so grateful. However, I was still not able to do this on my own. I had to get an attorney (solicitor) to help me and although this came with a cost, it was worth it, as he was able to keep her calm and talk to her.

My mother couldn't pay her bills, was giving money away to "charity" scams, and like your mother, was withdrawing large sums of money. My mother was hiding some of the cash around her flat but was also spending it on things she didn't need (but of course she didn't know that, or couldn't remember, that was the dementia interfering). Lots of food she didn't eat, lots and lots of Kleenex and toilet paper and kitchen rolls, and a lot of hair styling products. In addition, she was so anxious and distressed by any sort of bank statement/bill/receipt that it was heartrending. I wish so much that I'd had the courage to step in sooner. I would have saved her a lot of money, but more importantly, I would have saved her a lot of distress.

It has done her a world of good to have me take over the finances. I make sure she never sees a bill, statement, or anything of the sort as it only precipitates a meltdown from dreadful anxiety.

In retrospect, taking her to the attorney earlier on would have been the wiser course. She would have been resistant to the appointment, true, but it's probable that the attorney would have been able to handle it calmly and professionally and it would have saved me a great deal of trouble, and my mother a great deal of money (to those "charities" and scams; a year plus on, I'm still trying to recover some of the money but have little hope of it), later on.

So I hope you are able to find a way to get the paperwork in place and sort out the finances. I know it's a dreadful worry and very stressful and all of us can only do, the best we can do. Very best wishes to you.

 

[JohnBG]

Understanding

Your mum can understand the bank information does know her own pin possibly, this is for her safeguarding, as has been said it is nit about her agreeing, her condition will rise and fall.

My mother was convincing money away, perhaps set a budget and go together to withdraw that amount, things do get overlooked as people get older you are helping her with her financial situation.

 

[Dave66]

Hi FoxMuller

Fill in the online forms ASAP, print them off.
Explain to a friend of your Mum's what your intentions are and ask if they will be prepared to witness your Mum signing the documents.

Tell your Mum that the forms are so you can help her with her finances and if she has to go into hospital on holiday etc, you can act on her behalf.

This is how I understand the situation regarding your Mum signing.
Your Mum only needs to show "mental capacity" at the time of signing. If 10 minutes later your Mum has no recollection of signing or the conversation, it doesn't matter, as long as she understood at the time of signing, hence the witness signature.

We did Mam's after a few months of procrastination, mainly due to us not wanting to upset Mam by proposing or talking about the LPOA. The very limited upset, anger etc that you may initially get, will be nothing compared to the hassle, stress and frustration you will face if you don't get the forms signed.

My Mam doesn't even understand the pounds and pennies in her purse any more, she has no idea how much anything costs. I'm so pleased that we can deal with any financial issues now without having to trouble Mam, by dragging her off to a bank for her to listen to someone tell her things she has no comprehension of.

I would advise that you keep a record of ALL financial issues you deal with, bank appointments, phone calls, payment of bills, purchasing of food, clothes etc, just in case anyone queries anything, and keep all bank statements, bills, invoices, receipts too!!

Good luck.