Advice about enforcing someone's wishes once capacity is lost

rfd197

New member
Mar 30, 2023
1
0
Hi there

This is my first post here, so I hope it's ok to just dive right in and ask a question.

My stepmother (who brought us up as her own children for 40+ years, after coming to the UK as an immigrant 50+ years ago) has a dementia diagnosis, along with an associated psychosis. To cut a long story short she was admitted to hospital on a Section 2, which was later converted to a Section 3, and she has now been moved to a care home. My brother has LPA for all decisions, so the move to the care home was done in agreement with my brother. All good so far.

My stepmother has blood relatives overseas, who don't understand the diagnosis and have said they are going to come to the UK to take her back with them. We know they can't do this as they don't have her passport so we are not too worried about that, but they also don't understand the LPA or that my brother is now making decisions on her behalf.

One of the decisions has been to limit the permitted visitors to just me, my brother, his wife and my son - ie the nuclear family here in the UK. Our stepmother told us categorically that she did not want anyone else to see her, to see the deterioration, or to report back to the overseas family. They have asked us to video her "as a souvenir" which we have refused to do on the grounds that she told us she did not want anyone to see her or the state she is now in. We had spoken about this a lot before she lost capacity but sadly she didn't tell the overseas relatives, hence they don't understand or believe my brother when he tells them that he is just carrying out her wishes.

There is a person here in the UK, who has links to the overseas relatives and is ignoring my brother's instructions as LPA. My brother has repeatedly told him of our step mother's wishes because he repeatedly texts to asks for updates; my brother has also repeatedly told the overseas family via text of our step mother's wishes too, but they have not taken this well and think my brother is acting wrongfully. My brother has told all of them that she is very unwell, that the dementia is very progressed, but that she is safe and being very well cared for. We did not tell them which hospital she was in as we knew the person in the UK would override the request not to visit, but he rang around the local hospitals and found our stepmother, and had a phone call with her which the ward told us distressed her.

We have now found out that the hospital have since told him the name of the care home she was discharged to, and he has been in there to visit her without speaking to my brother first. She was extremely paranoid and distressed and was asking to go home after the visit, which we suspect was prompted by him as she has been entirely happy and settled in the home until this visit.

So, my brother still wants to limit the visitors as per our stepmothers request, especially as we can see the impact on her mental state - we do not want him to visit again, or to bring anyone else with him to see her. We do know that he has promised the people overseas that he will get her out of there and that he will support them to look after her. This is directly against her wishes, but my poor brother is absolutely exhausted with trying to maintain what she wanted in the face of people who are just ignoring this.

Does my brother have any way of enforcing my step mother's wishes to not be visited by these people? We do not blame the care home at all of course, they are wonderful with her, but we want to know if there is anything we can do to control the visiting, or if my brother should just give up and let whoever wants to see her to do so.

I would love to hear from anyone who has had to deal with a similar situation, or anyone who might know of any formal process that could help us here?

Many thanks for reading.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,318
0
Bury
anyone who might know of any formal process that could help us here?

This could help:

"4. What if the resident lacks the mental capacity to make decisions about who visits them?
Visits should be enabled, unless there are compelling reasons to say they are not in the person’s best interest. These reasons should be agreed through a Mental Capacity Act decision making process. More information about the Mental Capacity Act can be found on our website at www.cqc.org.uk/mca"


 
Last edited:

Sarasa

Volunteer Host
Apr 13, 2018
7,279
0
Nottinghamshire
Welcome to Dementia Talking Point @rfd197. I hope the information @nitram posted is useful.
Does your stepmother have a DoLS in place? If so I think any other relatives would find it difficult to try and remove her, as it will have been decided she is in the best place and your brother will probably been appointed her representative.
However that doesn't solve the immediate problem of him visiting the care home. Can you talk to the care home about the background, and can they help by either dissuading him from visiting or only allowing visits when one of you are there.
This is a very friendly and supportive place and I'm sure members who have had similar situations will be along with their tips and suggestions soon.
 

Palerider

Registered User
Aug 9, 2015
4,168
0
56
North West
Hi there

This is my first post here, so I hope it's ok to just dive right in and ask a question.

My stepmother (who brought us up as her own children for 40+ years, after coming to the UK as an immigrant 50+ years ago) has a dementia diagnosis, along with an associated psychosis. To cut a long story short she was admitted to hospital on a Section 2, which was later converted to a Section 3, and she has now been moved to a care home. My brother has LPA for all decisions, so the move to the care home was done in agreement with my brother. All good so far.

My stepmother has blood relatives overseas, who don't understand the diagnosis and have said they are going to come to the UK to take her back with them. We know they can't do this as they don't have her passport so we are not too worried about that, but they also don't understand the LPA or that my brother is now making decisions on her behalf.

One of the decisions has been to limit the permitted visitors to just me, my brother, his wife and my son - ie the nuclear family here in the UK. Our stepmother told us categorically that she did not want anyone else to see her, to see the deterioration, or to report back to the overseas family. They have asked us to video her "as a souvenir" which we have refused to do on the grounds that she told us she did not want anyone to see her or the state she is now in. We had spoken about this a lot before she lost capacity but sadly she didn't tell the overseas relatives, hence they don't understand or believe my brother when he tells them that he is just carrying out her wishes.

There is a person here in the UK, who has links to the overseas relatives and is ignoring my brother's instructions as LPA. My brother has repeatedly told him of our step mother's wishes because he repeatedly texts to asks for updates; my brother has also repeatedly told the overseas family via text of our step mother's wishes too, but they have not taken this well and think my brother is acting wrongfully. My brother has told all of them that she is very unwell, that the dementia is very progressed, but that she is safe and being very well cared for. We did not tell them which hospital she was in as we knew the person in the UK would override the request not to visit, but he rang around the local hospitals and found our stepmother, and had a phone call with her which the ward told us distressed her.

We have now found out that the hospital have since told him the name of the care home she was discharged to, and he has been in there to visit her without speaking to my brother first. She was extremely paranoid and distressed and was asking to go home after the visit, which we suspect was prompted by him as she has been entirely happy and settled in the home until this visit.

So, my brother still wants to limit the visitors as per our stepmothers request, especially as we can see the impact on her mental state - we do not want him to visit again, or to bring anyone else with him to see her. We do know that he has promised the people overseas that he will get her out of there and that he will support them to look after her. This is directly against her wishes, but my poor brother is absolutely exhausted with trying to maintain what she wanted in the face of people who are just ignoring this.

Does my brother have any way of enforcing my step mother's wishes to not be visited by these people? We do not blame the care home at all of course, they are wonderful with her, but we want to know if there is anything we can do to control the visiting, or if my brother should just give up and let whoever wants to see her to do so.

I would love to hear from anyone who has had to deal with a similar situation, or anyone who might know of any formal process that could help us here?

Many thanks for reading.
In ordinary circumstances you could apply for a court order to stop this activity, however in this situation the circumstances are slightly different and you would need to go through the Court of Protection (CoP), there is a link that advises around this, see below:


If this situation is significant in the affect is having I think it would be worth taking some formal action.
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,318
0
Bury
Whatever formal route you take the outcome will be acting in her best interests.
Is there any evidence that the visits would cause her undue distress,
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
139,068
Messages
2,002,909
Members
90,848
Latest member
jwpp