A Request for information

TED

Registered User
Sep 14, 2004
154
0
55
Middlesex
I may not be a spiritual man, or indeed a wise man,
but when I finally get to meet my maker I'm not going to ask him 'why'
but instead will shake his hand, call him lord and then (when he's not looking) give him the biggest kick up the A*** he's ever felt.

God! This is proof enough to me that there isnt one. Or if there is he's got a very vile streak to him.

TED
(already lost one mum, now slowly losing another)
 

Brucie

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
12,413
0
near London
Hi Hazel

yes, it is getting a bit deep isn't it? But it isn't until something like coping with dementia [and of course cancer, etc] comes along that one really gets shaken up in the cosy little religion that one gets drip fed through life from being a child.

It seems that people get split into the two camps that either question everything and don't necessarily get any answers that make sense, so drop faith - or they find their faith reinforced.

As for politics..... a plague on all their houses! I made an exception from recent years where I have not voted, and in the last election voted for my sitting MP since he at least seemed to try and provide a sensible action and response for my letter about the NICE recommendations. I almost didn't vote because I can't abide his leader, who is NOT PM.

these be my last words on politics.......!

P.S. I feel a bit sorry for Fr Ian, who must feel like he dipped his toe into a piranha pond......
 

TED

Registered User
Sep 14, 2004
154
0
55
Middlesex
have to say I agree with Bruce (not for the first time) about this subject, some of us have had to encounter both Alzheimers AND cancer so you can understand the reaction to questions of 'belief' it's already been tested to the full.

Hopefully the good father will welcome the posts for what they are (honest comments and observations) for it is easy to preach to the converted but much more of a challange to take on the view of someone who has either lost their faith or not necessarily turned their back on their religious beliefs but instead feels that their lord has turned thier back on them......it's for the lord and his followers to show that they are still there for me, not for me to go find them, in my opinion only of course.

regards

TED x

- just in case I may upset or offend anyone here who does still hold dear thier religious beliefs, please dont be, I respect your faith and admire you for finding the strength to keep it, more power to you.
 
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daughter

Registered User
Mar 16, 2005
824
0
Let's hope Ian is made of stronger stuff! :)

PS I wonder why someone who has religious beliefs should be offended by the views of someone who doesn't; any more than a person's without religious beliefs should be offended by those who do have them? :confused:
 

Fr Ian

Registered User
Jun 1, 2005
6
0
Greetings again to one and all!

I have been monitoring postings quite frequently (but I can't spend all my time in front of the PC and neither would I want to!).

I came on this site, not to engage in theology, nor to convert (I hope I made the latter point fairly clear early on) and it would be difficult to do the former without being accused of the latter.

One thing I will leave you with however. I do not have AD (thankfully) nor cancer (thankfully) but I have a medical condition that is painful and makes me desperately unhappy and over which I have no control. My faith has been and often is seriously tested. I challenge God as to where he is and what he's up to and why me! Probably questions many of you can relate to. My questions aren't answered. I'd love a voice from heaven to give me the answers but it hasn't happened yet.

What I'm saying (in a long winded way) is that it is not fair to assume that all Christians have easy cosy lives with easy cosy religion. The Christian faith somehow keeps me going in a funny inexplicable kind of way. Before someone accuses me of using religion as a crutch I have to pint out that it was with me before and wasn't a crutch so there's no reason to label it as that crutch now.

My reason for coming here was to seek from you things that have been done/not done in church or by the christian community that would have made sustaining yourself/your loved one/s in the church family a much easier and a more positive experience. Reading most of the mailings here, one could not fail to recognise a lot of hurt and anger and the feeling that Christ has turned his back on them, and I for one think that these are all understandable responses. I am certainly not prepared to "dish out" glib or so-called "easy answers".

Anyway, enough of my ramblings. This piranah pool isn't all bad, ;) I keep popping back don't I?
 
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Brucie

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
12,413
0
near London
Hi Ian

glad to see you back!

I think you started - even if inadvertantly - an interesting thread. These things are better for being discussed and, in the same way many of us said on finding TP: "I thought I was the only one", then the same goes for feelings on this topic.

The interesting thing is that there is actually no 'right' answer! You either believe - or you don't. Neither is wholly right, neither is wholly wrong. Whatever gets us through the day. :)
 

Fr Ian

Registered User
Jun 1, 2005
6
0
Well dear friends, it seems that postings have come to a natural end! Thank you to everyone for their comments and especially to Brucie for "paving the way" through the TP system.

I wont desert TP entirely, I will still pop in from time to time.

Best wishes to all.
 

TED

Registered User
Sep 14, 2004
154
0
55
Middlesex
Hi Ian

Good morning
How is your "post ordination training" coming along
have we been of any help here at all or did we just shoot you down (sorry)

trust you still looking in from time to time.
Regards
TED
 

frederickgt

Registered User
Jun 4, 2005
124
0
96
Hornchurch,Essex
I was saddened to see the previous posts about lack of support from churches.I am a praticsing Christian,a member of the L.D.S Church,which has always supported myself and my wife in her dementia,we get visited by the Priesthood and the Relief Society sisters twice a month,as well as friends at other times.you cannot lump all Churches and faiths and expect the same level of awareness re dementia,neither can you blame God for our misfortune.Some Churches are like people,there are very good ,good and some are downright evil
I know that God lives,also Jesus the Christ,and the Holy ghost,also the devil,why dont you blame him sometimes? My wife and I will continue in our belief and faith,and say our prayers.My religion is not a prop to me but a source orf comfort.Do you know the shortest verse in the bible?
Do you wonder?
 

Brucie

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
12,413
0
near London
Hi Frederickgt

I'm glad that your church has been supporting you and that your faith helps you.

As with pretty much everything in life, whatever works for you is good, but it may not necessarily work for others.
 

Norman

Registered User
Oct 9, 2003
4,348
0
Birmingham Hades
Hi Frederickgt
Glad to know that your faith is a great help to you .
I envy you,but you know the modern saying"whatever turns you on"
Best wishes
Norman
 

sarahfromBucks

Registered User
May 17, 2005
6
0
Bucks
C of E church for AD

Hello Fr Ian and others posting on this subject. You said:

I have chosen to examine ways in which the church succeeds and/or fails in integrating people with dementia (including those who have been known to the church before they became ill and those who have started attending afterwards).

I hope one day that the information I gather here as well as the knowledge I have of those in my congregation will be applied in a way that makes being part of being a worshipping community a less forbidding experience.

Fr Ian[/QUOTE]

My mother was a staunch member of her local C of E church in North Norfolk and attended parochial church council meetings etc. In the early stages of her AD, she was so proud that she could still remember the responses and the form of the liturgy - all the things that are so contentious for newcomers, perhaps. Her church did not adopt all the "new" form of service, and harked back in part to the old, so this was all very helpful to her.

As her AD advanced, she began to go only to the early morning Communion service, where she could avoid meeting and not recognising other church goers. Then not go at all - she said she couldn't hear very well, which I came to recognise meant couldn't understand or remember. I had hoped her religion would be of some comfort to her, so contacted the church wardens, who offered to walk in with her to the mid-morning service, but she refused. My mother was a very proud woman, who found spontaneous contact difficult throughout her life, not only during her AD period. She would not have found it easy to have the local clergy call to her house to celebrate communion or pray.

Towards the end of her life, in a nursing home and mute, with very little understanding, I used to repeat some of the psalms to her, hoping that the words would be familiar, also sing hymns to her in the privacy of her room. I talked to her of the old Saxon church she visited as a young woman, and asked her if she remembered it. On one, never to be forgotten occasion, she managed to say "Yes".

If AD sufferers have been brought up as regular churchgoers, or attended "divisions" in the armed services during the war, then I think the form of words will have remained somewhere in their long term memories, and any thing that can reach them should be used - ie retain the old form of words when conducting a service for them.

For myself, at my mother's funeral, I found a civil/humanist ceremony to be very comforting. (No caring Being, in my mind, could have permitted my mother's suffering). But I had a C of E interrment of her ashes, as she would have wished
 

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