12 Week disregard - moved Local Authorities

Roger59

New member
Jan 15, 2018
1
0
Hi
My mother has Vascular Dementia and as well as in the care of the relevant team at her Local Authority (LA) she was also under the local Community Mental Health Team, (CMHT). Following a number of 'episodes' (distressing for the family)whilst still living in her house (she received 4x daily care assistance arranged via her LA), it was felt necessary to contact the CMHT and ask for their assistance. They felt the best course of action was to offer respite Care, in the hope that mum would settle, after 3 weeks a re-assessment and with mum no better this was extended to the full 6 weeks of respite care. Mum's condition did not improve and CMHT considered, and the family agreed, that it was right for mum to remain in long-term care. Unfortunately the home that took mum for the respite was some distance from her house and therefore her group of friends, including those form her church (where she had been active for many years).
The family felt the best option was to look for a care home nearer her 'local' area, not least it meant that friends could more easily arrange visits. This care home is just outside of mum's LA but meets all the needs she has and offers excellent care and activities (when and if she wishes t join in!).

At the time of the going into care mum had more that the £23,250 in savings (mum was already contributing to her daily care costs). She also has her own house which has ben on the market for several months.

The LA in which she had lived (over 50 years) washed their hands of her once she was moved across the border into the neighbouring LA. I contacted the 'new' LA to ensure they had mums details but it took until the third call before they would listen. They had no details for her so did create a record and agreed that they would undertake an assessment of needs. This, I was told, could take up to 13 weeks!

With no contact and mums savings falling, contacted the 'new' LA and was told her case was gong to the legal department as she had been 'moved in' from a different LA and they needed to be certain as to who was responsible for the assessment / costs. A few weeks after I was told, by the 'new' LA that they would accept mum, with nothing further heard and funds falling (and the house still not sold) I again contact the LA and they advised they had given me the wrong information and it was for the original LA to deal with, they would, they iodised me, have their legal team talk to the other LA's legals and resolve.

As of today and with nothing more heard from either LA I contacted the original LA (ie where mums house is (it's still on the market) to be told by them it's not their responsibility its for the 'new' LA to carry out the assessment of need and deal with the 12 weeks disregard.

Bottom line is we now have enough funds to cover just two more months of care costs, a mum who is not fit to be in her own house (it has, in any case been largely emptied in the hope we can get a buyer) and two LA's saying that it's 'not them' that should deal with the case. The 'old' LA says that the new Care Act (I assume they refer to the CA2014) means its the responsibility of the LA in which she now lives. In return the 'new' LA, whilst not mentioning the CA2014) have said it's for the original LA to manage.

I fear I will not be the first family member who has encountered this, or indeed be the first family member who feels the 'state' has washed their hands of an elderly member of society.

Any advice on how we can unblock the system and hopefully resolve this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Roger
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
0
London
When I had to place my OH into a nursing home I was told I could place him anywhere in the country and they would still be responsible for his care, so I think the old LA is talking a lot of rot. However, I have no written proof for that so I'm not sure how you can break this stalemate!
 
Last edited:

Shedrech

Registered User
Dec 15, 2012
12,649
0
UK
hello @Roger59
welcome to TP
I also think that the original LA is responsible but as with Beate have no evidence
it would be worth calling the AS Helpline as they have knowledge and experience of matters such as yours
0300 222 11 22
Monday to Wednesday 9am – 8pm
Thursday and Friday 9am – 5pm
Saturday and Sunday 10am – 4pm
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,036
0
Staffs
Hi Roger59 and welcome to TP,

Normally I would say that the original LA is responsible but if you moved your Mother before they carried out a Needs Assessment and determined that there were needs, which seems like the case, then they have an argument as residency is determined after that Needs Assessment.

If the second LA now carried out a Needs Assessment they should be responsible.

There is a whole section on Ordinary Residency in the Statutory Guidance if you wish to read it. The gist is that any care needs should not be delayed because of a dispute between 2 LA's who have the responsibility to sort it out amongst themselves.
Sec 19.......
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-guidance/care-and-support-statutory-guidance

However it really is quite irrelevant as your Mother has assets, other than her house above the upper threshold and which makes her a self funder. Someone who is already in care as a self funder is not entitled to the 12 Week Disregard under the CA2014. It was different pre April 2015 under the old CRAG rules but LA's argued that the 12 Week Disregard should be for those that unexpectantly find themselves needing full time care and need time to sell the house. Self funders have already had time to make those decisions.

If the time when you placed your Mother in care and she reached the upper threshold is less than 12 weeks you may have a little room for argument but not much.:(

Sorry.

:)
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
6,399
0
Salford
Hi Roger, welcome to TP
The way to determine where somebody is an "ordinary resident" are set out in the Statutory Guidance notes to the 2104 Care Act. (link below) in section 19-21.
Also see Annex H, sections 1-7 on the same link.
Secvtion 19.11 says that;
19.11 The determination of ordinary residence must not delay the process of meeting needs. In cases where ordinary residence is not certain, the local authority should meet the individual’s needs first, and then resolve the question of ordinary residence subsequently. This is particularly the case where there may be a dispute between 2 or more local authorities.
So the LA's should be sorting this out between themselves not making you piggy in the middle.
If you're phoning the town hall then you'll get told any number of things, you really need to get an e-mail address and make them put it in writing and don't be afraid to copy your local MP in too, see if that helps them focus.
K

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...inter-local-authority-and-cross-border-issues
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,036
0
Staffs
So the LA's should be sorting this out between themselves not making you piggy in the middle.
If you're phoning the town hall then you'll get told any number of things, you really need to get an e-mail address and make them put it in writing and don't be afraid to copy your local MP in too, see if that helps them focus.
But the first LA must have carried out a Needs Assessment and determined full time care first. That may not have happened in this case.

:)
 

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