Seizures and UTI's

[1954]

Sorry for only posting when I have a problem or query

My query is MIL developed epilepsy last summer and it seems that when she develops UTI's it seems to trigger off a seizure. Has anyone else found that there is a link please? I give her so many drinks but she still seems to frequently get the UTI's

It doesn't help because she goes to bed by 7pm (her choice) and wakes from the 'dead' of sleep at about 10-11am now even though I take drinks in she just falls asleep again. She's been up for about 2 hours a day since the end of last week

She has also started to wander at night and thankfully we have the alarm mat, which I am surprised it doesn't give her heart attack as it so loud but she doesn't seem to notice it going off!!

 

[Ann Mac]

I have no experience with dementia and epilepsy, but I supported many adults with learning disabilities who had epilepsy, and I did find that often, ill health - especially if a high temperature was present, would increase seizures

Mil suffers from repeated UTIs, and the best way that I've found to increase fludids, is to do it through food - got her to have porridge with lots of milk every morning, lots of soups, stews, gravy and jelly and custard. She has definitely had less UTIs since - however, she doesn't sleep as much as your Mil.

Mil has also always had wakeful periods at night, but thankfully, at the moment it doesn't take too long to settle her. x

 

[Eleonora]

My OH has suffered from Epilepsy for the last five years and, after having a permanent catheter put in place, has had several UTIs as well.

I, too, have felt that there is a strong connection between his bladder health and epileptic seizures.

Now, whenever he has a seizure, (about once every month) I check his urine with a, 'pee strip' to see if there are any nasties lurking within.

 

[Linbrusco]

My husband is on anti seizure meds as a precaution, following two brain surgeries for a tumour. His seizures were well under control until 2011 he developed a UTI, which his GP prescribed antibiotics. Later that evening while asleep he had a seizure.
Neurologist says any type of infection can trigger a seizure as it lowers your threshold, even despite anti seizure meds. As a precaution now he has monthly urine tests.
Easier said than done with someone with dementia.
Can your mother be put on a daily low dose anti biotic?

 

[Nebiroth]

Unless there's something like a permanent catheter then constant low dose antibiotics are generally avoided.

It encourages antibiotic resistance because the susciptible bacteria are destroyed but the resistant ones survive and multiply, leaving only resistant ones. An increased dose may be required to achieve a succesful treatment but all too often is just another stpe in having even more resistant bacteria, ultimately, the antibiotic may become useless - and not just for that patient but in the wide community because the resistant strain infects other people and can pass the resistance factor to other bugs also.

There is already widespread resistance to first line treatments like trimethaprim and worrying it is starting to develop in second line treatments, even "strong" antibiotics like carbapanems. It is even starting to appear against drugs of last resort - after which no further treatment is available.

Long term antibiotic treatment can also result in side effects, espescially if the drug happens to also kill off the helpful bacteria that normally reside in our digestive systems. This can lead to things like malabsorption of nutrients or more severe problems such as recurring diarrhea.

Most doctors are resistant to long-term antibiotic use for these reasons.

Cranberry juice can work quite well. Cranberry extract tablets can be used if the juice is not suitable for some reason. Good hydration is vital - essentially this means that the irnary system is regularly (and literally) flushed clean.

Without good hydration urine becomes concentrated and stale, and the urinary system is only "flushed" irregularly. It becomes an ideal home for bugs.

 

[RobinH]

My OH has suffered from Epilepsy for the last five years and, after having a permanent catheter put in place, has had several UTIs as well.

I, too, have felt that there is a strong connection between his bladder health and epileptic seizures.

Now, whenever he has a seizure, (about once every month) I check his urine with a, 'pee strip' to see if there are any nasties lurking within.

Sorry to go slightly off-subject, but I've been trying to find some UTI testing strips - every time mum is particularly bad, it's the first thing I want tested, but we have to go to the GP or A&E. How do you get hold of the test strips? Can you give me the name to ask for?

thanks

Robin

 

[marsaday]

Very interesting reply Neibroth. My Mum is on a long term low dose due to this. But it doesn't keep them at bay and she also has seizures-first one brought on by severe Uti. Subsequent ones at times of further infection. What is the alternative though? I have talked to doc and had the no more hospitalisations/dnr discussion but at what point is it right to say no more antibiotics? I suppose when they stop working...
And in meantime doc seems happy to have her on this long-term treatment even with all the risks you point out. Atm when they put her on stronger ones it seems to work for a month or 2 then another comes along.

 

[angelface]

My aunt has the seizures and the UTIs. She is on a low dose of antibiotics all the time, and sodium valporate for the seizures. She does seem much better at the moment, but will the UTIs and seizures get worse as the dementia progresses? It seems to be moving at a brisk pace.
I have not seen auntie drink more than a sip from a cup for several months now, but the CH repeatedly tell me she is not dehydrated/drinking enough. No idea what I can do to improve things.

 

[1954]

Now she will not get up!

Thank you for all your replies and advice

Now MIL seems to have taken to her bed! She will eventually get up for about 2 hours a day

 

[Eleonora]

Sorry to go slightly off-subject, but I've been trying to find some UTI testing strips - every time mum is particularly bad, it's the first thing I want tested, but we have to go to the GP or A&E. How do you get hold of the test strips? Can you give me the name to ask for?

thanks

Robin

Hello Robin - I first discovered the , 'pee sticks', (or urine testing strips - UTI) when our GP accidentally left a tub of them behind.
When the next suspected UTI appeared, I read the instructions, which are fairly simple, and tried one out - I was horrified to see the huge diversion from, 'normal' on my husband's strip; my suspicions were confirmed, and I called the surgery at once.

Our GP , (very nicely) demanded the strips back when he called to see my husband. So there I was - stripless!

I found pharmacies unwilling or unable to sell me some replacements, so I Googled -
'Urine Testing Strips' and found it was perfectly possible to buy them on-line, although, 'professional use' was mentioned.

We are in the middle of yet another UTI, and yesterday, I was able to tell our GP that not only did my husband's pee resemble a slightly overcooked caramel in colour,and smell like fish; but that his leukocytes were +++500 after 90 seconds !

Our GP was slightly surprised, but agreed that it certainly sounded like a UTI; and whizzed a prescription off to our local pharmacy at once.

 

[Eleonora]

Unless there's something like a permanent catheter then constant low dose antibiotics are generally avoided.

It encourages antibiotic resistance because the susciptible bacteria are destroyed but the resistant ones survive and multiply, leaving only resistant ones. An increased dose may be required to achieve a succesful treatment but all too often is just another stpe in having even more resistant bacteria, ultimately, the antibiotic may become useless - and not just for that patient but in the wide community because the resistant strain infects other people and can pass the resistance factor to other bugs also.

There is already widespread resistance to first line treatments like trimethaprim and worrying it is starting to develop in second line treatments, even "strong" antibiotics like carbapanems. It is even starting to appear against drugs of last resort - after which no further treatment is available.

Long term antibiotic treatment can also result in side effects, espescially if the drug happens to also kill off the helpful bacteria that normally reside in our digestive systems. This can lead to things like malabsorption of nutrients or more severe problems such as recurring diarrhea.

Most doctors are resistant to long-term antibiotic use for these reasons.

Cranberry juice can work quite well. Cranberry extract tablets can be used if the juice is not suitable for some reason. Good hydration is vital - essentially this means that the irnary system is regularly (and literally) flushed clean.

Without good hydration urine becomes concentrated and stale, and the urinary system is only "flushed" irregularly. It becomes an ideal home for bugs.

Oh Wow! Thank you so much Nebiroth - a lucid and useful overview of the subject.
Our GP suggested yesterday the possibility of giving my husband a low-dose daily antibiotic, and we decided that it might be a good idea in the near future.
Having read your summing up of the long term dangers, I think I need to ask him some more questions before coming to a decision.

 

[LYN T]

Very interesting reply Neibroth. My Mum is on a long term low dose due to this. But it doesn't keep them at bay and she also has seizures-first one brought on by severe Uti. Subsequent ones at times of further infection. What is the alternative though? I have talked to doc and had the no more hospitalisations/dnr discussion but at what point is it right to say no more antibiotics? I suppose when they stop working...
And in meantime doc seems happy to have her on this long-term treatment even with all the risks you point out. Atm when they put her on stronger ones it seems to work for a month or 2 then another comes along.

My OH was put on AB's again today because of a chest infection.I had the talk with the visiting GP who said exactly as you have. She will stop prescribing when they stop working.

The Devil you do, the Devil you don't springs to mind

Take care

Lyn T

 

[jfmb]

Seizure helped mother's dementia

Has anyone experienced a clearing of the brain after a seizure? my mother had a nasty fall and cut the back of her head she had to go to hospital they kept her in and she had a 30 second seizure. Since that seizure she has been far more lucid. A similar thing happened about a year ago she fell asleep on the end of her bed and hit her head as she fell off. When in hodpital they thought she had a minor infection in one leg (with cellulitis). I managed to 'free' her from there after 13 days - you can imagine my horror when opening her medications bag to find that without consulting me or even telling me they had issued a DNR notice.

 

[minet48]

Hi I am new to the forum and this is my first post. I cared for my mum at her home for several years until she went into a nursing home. Keeping her hydrated at home was a real challenge and I agree with the earlier post that getting liquids down by other means in food like gravy, jelly etc can help when someone just won't drink. The food she gets at the home is very good but I worry about her liquid intake. She is diabetic and therefore apparently more prone to uti's. The last time she had a bad one she had terrible delirium for a couple of months which made the confusion much worse. She seems to have a permanent very low level uti now which is resistant to antibiotics. It is a real job getting her to drink and she will spend half the day in bed if she can. However, after months of persuasion she will drink a carton of cranberry juice every day which we take in for her. The doctor said there was an article in the BMJ about it and that it was better than her taking antibiotics as she is resistant and she must drink cranberry juice every day even though it is sweetened and she is diabetic. She doesn't seem to have any ill effects from it. I suppose it depends on the individual. The doctor also said she should be showered every day because there were hygene issues with her getting uti's at home from refusing to wash and hand hygene after going to the loo. Sometimes she will agree to a shower. sometimes she just refuses to get out of bed. Every day is different and i never know what to expect when I visit.

 

[copsham]

More questions than answers

Is the person on the bacteria that become antibiotic resistance?

My mother is on her third lot of antibiotics. Her first two were based on dip sticks/pee tests. The third based on her test which went to a lab for analysis. Nothing is making a difference.18 months ago an unidentified bug got in to her blood giving her sepsis. I don't know whether she will survive???

 

[minet48]

I am so sorry to hear about this Copsham. Also sorry that I don't really know what sort of bacteria my mum has which is antibiotic-resistant so I can't provide more info on that. She does have an ongoing long term leg ulcer (which is improving) and there has been at some stage some (unspecified) cross infection.

 

[nmintueo]

Has anyone experienced a clearing of the brain after a seizure? my mother had a nasty fall and cut the back of her head she had to go to hospital they kept her in and she had a 30 second seizure. Since that seizure she has been far more lucid.

Dad perked up again after seizure
http://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/showthread.php?72038