To Posh TOO WASH & Mid - Staff 's ( Francis ) Report .. My Thoghts

[grove]

Hello Everybody , After reading Tina T 's Thread yesterday about the very sad care her Mother had while'st in Hospital & the Francis Report that came out on the same day ...... It has made me think ( also because of the bad reports from other T P 'ers who's loved ones have been in Hospital ...... tho do recall reading 1 postive Hospital report on T P ) that 1 of the problems is that the Nurses are too Posh To Wash & this leads to a BAD Culture of not doing or providing patient 's with the care & dignity that is EXPECTED of Nursing Staff ...... *** Care & Dignity *** ..... what I mean is giving patient's a drink / & or help at Meal Times ...... taking them to the toilet when its neded etc , etc . Makes me that these Degree Nurses think they are "above " this type of basic care just because they have a degree ! ...... my view is the Govt should never have started the Project 200 or it should have been done in a slightly different way & MADE all Nurses do a S E N type training first & then & only then the Staff who make the grade in all areas will be allowed to do a degree course if they so wish

A few months ago read a true Book called Cadet Nursing ( a lady in the 1950 's who was a Cadet Nurse stright from Snr School ) One main point that sticks out is how in her first year she said the Staff in Charge was like a Sergent Major ( not on the Wards but out of class ) Think it would be no bad thing to bring back some of the 1950 's type of Nursing Training / Rules & Regs ..... Am fully aware that the Mid Staffs Scandal is NOT all down to the front line Staff but higher up the Chain of command but if the Ward Sister 's of today were allowed to RUN their Wards as they want to run them with out all the hassle from above etc ( as they were run back in the 1950 's / 1960 's ) am sure the Nursing Staff would buckle down & provide the proper standard of care & dignity to all patients & hopefully the bad attiude of Too Posh Too Wash would not be allowed to surface ...... My Father has Moderate Dementia & lives at Home with Mum & some times it bother 's me if my Father had to go into our Local Hospital as have heard the Buttefly Scheme was approved by the P C T etc but lo & behold the Training Money was not made available so the Ward Staff are not Dementia Aware .... ( sorry if slightly off the subject there )

My aim of this Thread is / was to support Tina T 's ( recent ) Thread & to keep basic Care & Dignity in the LIME LIGHT ( as it were ) as those 2 important parts of Nursing are very important to me & would welcome your views please ...... Thank you very much for reading & sorry its a long post !.... ( & Positive Vibes from me if any of your loved ones need to stay in Hospital that they are treated with the Care & Dignity they so richly deserve )


Love Grove x

 

[beech mount]

Well said Grove!
John.

 

[2jays]

I do agree Grove. It seems to me that once SEN's were got rid of, all nursing care went down hill.

I had an aunt who left school at 14 and became and SEN. She then went on to qualify as a SRN, and through the ranks until when she retired, she was matron.

She told me she had less responsibilty as matron than she did when she was a SRN, because by the time she was a matron, there were people, not medical, who made the decisions of how the wards were run, and there were no SEN's who did the majority of the personal care, so leaving the medical care, ie injections, tablets etc to the SRN's, sister who made sure everything on the ward was running smoothly, and matron who made sure everything medical was running. It seemed to her everybody working on the ward, we're too qualified to empty a bed pan.

Where oh where has people care gone???

 

[stressed51]

Well said grove. Have posted a reply on the other thread re this outrage. What is the matter with people? What is wrong with this country? Its from the top down, somebody must be held accountable. Compassion has just deserted this country, I hope I never have to go into hospital

 

[NeverGiveUp]

Staffing of wards is an interesting one, very interesting the last time mum went into hospital - one of the 5.....

Some days they had nurses, sisters, and ward assistants (don't know the correct term for them)

Other days/evenings they had all trainee nurses and a sister.

Then there were days with the ward assitants and a staff nurse only.

The very best day/evening was when it was very short staffed, the ward assistant in the bay asked the other visitor and myself to keep an eye on the bay has she had been there all shift and no-one had come to give her a break. Off she went, we waited for a very long time for her, or someone else, to come back so we could go home. Eventually we got fed up with waiting and went to look for someone to tell that we were going home and it needed someone from the staff to sit in the bay.

The other visitor went one way, I went the other, we looked everywhere - tea room, side rooms, kitchen, loos etc. We were the only non patients in the entire ward and may had been for a long while.

Where do visitors in charge of elderly wards fit into the staffing rota?

 

[jeany123]

I had my first two children in the early 70s and my second 2 in 1984 and 1988 I noticed a big change in the nurses in between those years most of them were not so caring and seemed to have different rules as though they weren't allowed to follow their instincts and had to be careful about every thing they did, does no-one think that also the introduction of agencies in nursing brought a change in attitude,

 

[sistermillicent]

I don't think it is so much the introduction of agencies as the change in the training of nurses and the change in the model of patient care that was introduced in I think the early 80's (the change in training was around 1990s)
I trained in the 70's and things were far from perfect. However, we were on wards where the sisters were very much in charge, they were not chasing popularity or love from their staff, they were there to care for patients, first and foremost and only.
To ensure we got things done and nothing was forgotten we had worksheets which we checked off as we did things, such as a pressure care round, a fluid round, bed change round, it detailed who was to have a bath, blanket bath or shower, and who was to have dressings done etc.
This is considered gross these days and old fashioned beyond belief. But everything got done. We worked as a team, not as individual nurses for individual patients unless someone needed a "special", and the sister or staff nurse in charge would be the one who was directly responsible for the welfare of each patient.
Chatting over the patient about your night out was absolutely forbidden, as was eating or drinking on the ward.
Everything stopped for mealtimes which were given high priority.
Oh well, happy memories, it felt safe and secure for both patients and staff. I am off to work now to give safety and security of the old fashioned kind to the kids I look after. Chicken pox epidemic at the moment.

 

[CeliaW]

I trained in the mid 70's and I agree with Sister Millicent - how things changed. Things weren't perfect but patients mattered - not balance sheets.

I was made redundant as a Senior Sister in the mid 90's - as part of a removal of a whole swathe of us who had all trained at similar times and who were a thorn in the side of the money managers who had taken over. My "manager" told me that my problem was that my standards were too high - I told him he was welcome to come up to mine but I had no intention of lowering myself to his. The same manager was fond of saying "Patients should be fed, watered and medicated, anything else is a luxury"

I do hope he ends up in one of these malfunctioning hospitals...

Yes there needed to be better accountability for spending and sensible ways to get good value for money but it was taken to the extreme and the changes were never going to work. I pity the nurses nowadays - not only short staffed but with no good role models.

Until they move away from the priority being budgets and develop a more holistic, multi team approach to care with joined up thinking about how x impacts on y etc - then nothing much will change. It will all be posturing on the part of the politicians and scoring points and the patient and carers will continue to suffer.

I doubt it would ever happen but I think the three areas - healthcare, education and defence should be an all party agreement with agreed ten year rolling plans. In that way there would be definite goals to work to and achieve and there would be less waste - not just of money but also the opportunities for children in education, the quality of life for those in the healthcare system and a robust, well thought out, suitably resourced defence system and personnel.

Joined up thinking and politicians? no chance...

 

[gringo]

I do wish that the AS. would find a way to get the last two posts from CeliaW and sistermillicent to the notice of our politicians.

 

[Necion]

Makes me that these Degree Nurses think they are "above " this type of basic care just because they have a degree !

so the Ward Staff are not Dementia Aware .... ( sorry if slightly off the subject there )

Couldn't agree more Grove.

When John's local doctors were ignoring his signs & symptoms .....with me just about going around the bend!!......and our home under a reposession order because we couldn't claim on our insurance without diagnosis....... I contacted our local MP, silly me thought she would kick ****!!!

Even when presented with obvious mistakes they had made, she patronisingly told me.....wait for it......."You MUST listen to the doctors...... they have a degreeeeeeee!!

I confess the only reason she didn't exit through the kitchen window was because I couldn't afford to replace it!!!

Some of these people...not all, need to get their heads out of their other ends & ditch the egos.
Thankfully John now has a fantastic GP, unbelievable difference in attitude.

Lots of love, Necion. xx

 

[CeliaW]

I understand your comment about "Too posh to wash" Grove but think its probably not (or wasn't) a choice by the nurses but one imposed by the management. Towards the end of my time in nursing there was a real shift on what trained nurses were allowed to do - because we were too expensive a commodity for what was deemed then as trivial unskilled tasks.

However much we could say, in the case of washing for example, that the activity was not trivial as it gave uninterrupted time for nurse and patient to talk, observe etc. I would find out more useful information in casual conversation during a bed bath than standing there with a tick chart. A simple example: So Mr X was not sleeping well and recovery was slow? No need for investigations as, following our conversation and a quick phone call, I was able to tell him that I had found out that his beloved dog who was being cared for by a neighbour, was obviously missing him but was eating OK and the phone call meant that said neighbour brought the dog into the hospital grounds and Mr X could see for himself from the window of the ward that dog was OK. Recovery speeded up and Mr X was soon able to be taken to the outpatient canteen and oh surprise surprise - beloved dog was outside... Mr X soon recovered and home.

We even had the ritual of last offices removed from the tasks a trained nurse could do as they were deemed not to need a trained nurse. Forget the fact that it was closure and a last caring act a nurse could do for her patient, forget the fact that it meant she could reassure the relatives that she had taken care of the patient and completed these final tasks and taken them to the mortuary - just remember that it was cheaper to get a low paid assistant to wash and prepare someone they may never have met, cheaper to get two porters to collect the body (for sure it was not thought of as a person) rather than allow the nurse to escort them to mortuary.

So the nurses may want to do it but their time is so measured now and so short, do they do these things at the risk of not completing other tasks? at the risk of disciplinary action?

Many newer nurses may not see it as part of their role because of the different training and indoctrination they have had - but its not all their fault. They are as much victims of the system as the patients in many ways.

I wouldn't be a nurse now if you paid me a kings ransom - aside from the fact they wouldn't have me back because I would cause mayhem with my "different standards and expectations"!

 

[TinaT]

Very well said Grove and a true piece from the heart which reflect what many of us have said for years. Sadly these things continue to happen and nothing changes. Lets hope after this horrific account of two days ago that things will change for the better and our vulnerable relatives will get the care they so bady need.

xxTinaT