Avoiding nursing home fees

[Tender Face]

... our parents / partners should be entitled to a dignified, equal, respectful and cared for remaining years..........

Abby
x

Quite! How many battles have some of our loved ones gone through? For what?



K, x

 

[abby]

Abby, have you looked into the services provided by the RN for ex-servicemen. I say men, becasue they do nothing for ex-servicewomen (i.e. my ex WRN mother) but they did seem to have some support for the male of the species.

Jennifer......that's disgraceful too......Mum was a QWARMS ( sp ) nurse...and after 2 bypasses, 2 strokes, amuputation up to her hips........they did nothing...again ...l So I understand this.....
Dad cared for Mum for 20 years, with the help of a wonderful lady who came in to do ' the personal things ' ( he payed full wack ) but still financed the ramps for her wheelchair.......modifications to her bedroom.....bathroom ....and the 2K to get her a wheelchair that didnt rub her raw........not a cent....not a benefit......nothing
My beautiful Mum died 12 years ago.
Abby
x

 

[noelphobic]

Dear Jennifer,
My Mum may have been better off in a Care Home earlier, but we were worried about how long her savings and money would last. Once they've been spent and the house has been sold, what do you do then? Mum is still only 81 and could well have five or ten years in the NH. What happens to her if she doesn't have enough to pay the NH fees? Would we be charged for them?
Kayla

Once a resident's assets go below the set level then the local authority should pick up the tab. In theory this could entail a move to another care home, in practice I don't know how likely this is.

If my mum had had no savings she could have still gone to the same nursing home so we haven't had any more choice in the matter because of her having money and a property.However, private residents in her nursing home are charged £125 per week more than local authority funded residents!

 

[Tender Face]

My Mum may have been better off in a Care Home earlier, but we were worried about how long her savings and money would last. Once they've been spent and the house has been sold, what do you do then?

Brilliant question Kayla! I'm afraid I'm not sure I want to know the answers .....

K, x

 

[jenniferpa]

Like Noelphobic said - in theory they could 1) force you to move or 2) ask you to pay top up fees. I also have no idea how common the former is, but I bet the latter is SOP!

 

[alfjess]

My Mum may have been better off in a Care Home earlier, but we were worried about how long her savings and money would last. Once they've been spent and the house has been sold, what do you do then?

 

[noelphobic]

Like Noelphobic said - in theory they could 1) force you to move or 2) ask you to pay top up fees. I also have no idea how common the former is, but I bet the latter is SOP!

As far as I am aware my mum's present home doesn't charge top up fees. However, the EMI home she was in previously did have top up fees of £50 per week and said that this HAD to be paid by someone other than the resident. I think it is somewhere in all the rules and regulations that if a place is not available in a home that charges the amount that the local authority will pay then top up fees cannot be levied. However, the sting in the tail with that is that if a place became available at a later date in a home that charged less then the LA could insist on the resident being moved.

 

[alfjess]

My Mum may have been better off in a Care Home earlier, but we were worried about how long her savings and money would last. Once they've been spent and the house has been sold, what do you do then?

Hi All
Sorry about last post, I did it wrong.
This is also my problem, but I have both Mum and Dad, who will be self funding. I ask myself, how long will the money last with 2 of them to pay for, it would cost approx £1100 per week less personal care allowance and pension. My Mum only has a small state pension. If the money runs out, can SS. seperate Mum and Dad, if they fund it? How many council homes have double rooms? They are totaly reliant on each other and I couldn't see them apart, although sometimes I think Dad could see Mum far enough, but only for a little while, then he becomes anxious about her, Mum is always doing the wifely thing, in trying to look after Dad. She insists on feeding him, even though we see that they are fed 3 times a day, (roast beef sandwiches sprinkled with ripped open teabags)
As others have said on this thread, what really annoys me is that self funders are charged more for care. This to me is discrimination and unfair.
Alfjess

 

[noelphobic]

Hi All
Sorry about last post, I did it wrong.
This is also my problem, but I have both Mum and Dad, who will be self funding. I ask myself, how long will the money last with 2 of them to pay for, it would cost approx £1100 per week less personal care allowance and pension. My Mum only has a small state pension. If the money runs out, can SS. seperate Mum and Dad, if they fund it? How many council homes have double rooms? They are totaly reliant on each other and I couldn't see them apart, although sometimes I think Dad could see Mum far enough, but only for a little while, then he becomes anxious about her, Mum is always doing the wifely thing, in trying to look after Dad. She insists on feeding him, even though we see that they are fed 3 times a day, (roast beef sandwiches sprinkled with ripped open teabags)
As others have said on this thread, what really annoys me is that self funders are charged more for care. This to me is discrimination and unfair.
Alfjess

There are no council run homes in this area at all any more so self funded and LA funded residents are all in private homes. My mum's home does have at least 3 double rooms - she used to share a room herself when she first moved in but now has a single room as her room mate's sister moved into the home. There are also 2 married couples there who share rooms.

I think the reason for charging self funders more is to subsidise the local authority funded residents. The local authorities have ceilings above which they won't pay so the homes either charge top up fees or charge self funders more.

 

[Cate]

Hi All

Not quite sure how the system works outside of Wales, however, when mum moved into the NH we were advised that Social Services would pay for her until her property is sold, we then have to pay them back.

Once the proceeds and any savings is down to £22,500.00, mum will then pay all of her pension except 17:50 a week, which she is allowed to keep (woopeee), Social Services will then pay the rest. No top up is required by her family.

The amazing point is: whilst mum is self funding her NH fees are £467 per week, once Social Services are picking up the tab, the fees are £385 per week!! That was the case in all the NH we looked at. It appears they will charge to the level Social Services will pay, smart move, otherwise I guess they would not have too many residents.

As I mentioned earlier, the 'system' may well differ outside of Wales.

Best wishes
Cate

 

[noelphobic]

Hi All

Once the proceeds and any savings is down to £22,500.00, mum will then pay all of her pension except 17:50 a week, which she is allowed to keep (woopeee), Social Services will then pay the rest. No top up is required by her family.

The amazing point is: whilst mum is self funding her NH fees are £467 per week, once Social Services are picking up the tab, the fees are £385 per week!! That was the case in all the NH we looked at. It appears they will charge to the level Social Services will pay, smart move, otherwise I guess they would not have too many residents.

As I mentioned earlier, the 'system' may well differ outside of Wales.

Best wishes
Cate

My understanding is that once the assets are down to £22500 the resident pays on a sliding scale and it is only when their assets are down to approx £12k that they stop contributing altogether (apart from pension and benefits). The top up fee, if it is levied, will be levied by the nursing home rather than social services ie the home may charge more than social services will pay.

 

[abby]

Cate.....
Forgive me.......still don't understand all the abbreviations and terminology.......but does your mum have a ' determined ' condition ?

If she does......then should there be any charges at all ? Oh my word....this 1946 act keeps smacking me in the face like a wet kipper !
Abby
x

 

[jenniferpa]

The rationale that is given for this discrepency is that social services are "bulk purchasers" of the product (care homes). I don't say I buy that, but that's what they say. It's true that they have enormous clout over nursing homes with their ability to "force" contracts.

 

[Cate]

Hi Noelphobic

I have checked the 'contract' we had from Social Services, and as I mentioned earlier, the 'system' may well differ in Wales. No top up is required by the NH once Social Services are paying after mum's 'estate' reaches 22.5K.

Sorry Abby NH = Nursing Home. Yes mum has a diagnosis of Alzheimers, however at this 'stage' of her illness, whilst she requires 'prompting/guidance' on most aspects of everyday life, she does not require 'qualified medical' nursing care, therefore no proportion of her care is funded by the NHS, the argument being that her care needs can be met by 'unqualified' staff!!

Jennifer, you are soooooo right.

 

[Helena]

Nada

The entire point of Tender Faces request is simple

Under the 1946 NHS Act its illegal for patients to be forced to pay for care

www.************

gives all the information

Yet I understand that the Alzheimers Society have refused to face these facts or join in to help and support the fight for justice

Until Alzheimers Society lends its weight to the campaign to force this Government to face facts and stop acting illegally they will think they can walk all over little people

No dementia patient should be charged for care .......its illegal and there are some 3000 cases waiting to come to court and there are cases already won

 

[Tender Face]

Hi Nada

Not about general politics … but the policies that apply to dementia care etc … in which case surely this is the forum that should be ‘collating’ the issues as understood by the people ACTUALLY LIVING OUT the policies? … THEN the issues can be moved forward to other arenas ….

I just feel that so often a political point is made amidst lots of other issues …. and it’s a huge learning curve for me in itself ……

I’m one of those people always happy to get involved in campaigning and lobbying - trouble is I don’t know enough - but am trying to learn for my mother’s sake and dementia care generally…..

I don’t see that restructuring is needed (perhaps simply a thread under ‘Raising Awareness and Campaigning?) …. I just get ‘vibes’ that the political does tend to get ‘brushed aside’ and whilst it may not be as vital an issue on a day-to-day level for many here it’s so hugely relevant and important for the now and the future….. As I pointed out previously on this thread you only have to look at the number of views on the thread to see what interest is out there (even if that’s just from folk initially coming at it from a personal level, which I’m not suggesting is wrong!)

I guess I could do a ‘cut and paste’ job and collate the info for myself as I find it - but that doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of the sharing that goes on on TP….

Hope that makes more sense…

Karen

 

[Tender Face]

Hi Karen
My problem is that there is a lot of mis-information being spread about on this board.

Aaaah... so we can pretend we're just like the politicians.....

My point was exactly that I don't feel I CAN write to my MP (I often do! ) nor sign a petition always on some of the issues around dementia care because I simply don't understand enough ..... nor have listened enough to other people's views (from whatever culture or political party) to help me form my own opinion .....

'Talking amongst oursleves' and sharing what views and learning we have can surely only be for the good ......?

Right... well you can guess which section I am off to .......

Love, Karen, x

 

[tedsmum]

Just wanted to let you know janishere that I totally agree with your comments it is time for us all to unite and be brave. the trouble is we all feel so overwhelmed with the day to day anguish of what we are going through that it is hard to find the energy to fight against the bureaucracy but if we all refused to do what social services tell us to do there would be stength in numbers and we would see a change.

 

[Vicki]

Campaign to end charging for care

Hello

I am one of the Alzheimer’s Society’s campaigns officers and wanted to clarify our position on paying for care. The Alzheimer’s Society is campaigning for an end to the system of charging for care which discriminates against people with dementia and their carers. People with dementia have a physical disease of the brain. It is wrong that people with dementia have to pay thousands of pounds towards the care that they need as a result of a medical condition.

In March 2005 the Alzheimer’s Society held its first parliamentary lobby, bringing together over 500 supporters, to highlight the issue with MPs and the Government.

The Alzheimer’s Society is calling for a national debate on charging for care. The Secretary of State for Health, Patricia Hewitt MP, has agreed with people with dementia and carers that there is an urgent need for a national debate on who pays for care. And yet she has yet to set out a timetable for this debate. We want this debate to happen. This issue is a priority for people with dementia and their carers, as the Talking Point debate has highlighted, and will be a campaigning priority for the Alzheimer’s Society in the coming year.

We hope that Talking Point members can join us in our fight to end charging for care.

Vicki

 

[Lucille]

Whilst we're on the subjet of paying for care ... today's Daily Telegraph page 9; there's a report about a man who has successfully won back the fees he had to pay for his mother who suffered from AD. The Alzheimer's Society is quoted in the report.

Telegraph weblink is http://www.telegraph.co.uk
- they are also asking for your views on medical care fees. I'm sure there's a few people here who would like to add to it!! the link for that is http://www.telegraph.co.uk/yourview