Nursing home predicament.

[Poetic_Lass]

Hi again, All.

We've come to a predicament as of late. My grandmother was placed with a new room mate in the nursing home - her last room mate moved out and into another room because a long time friend of hers' entered the nursing hom eand she wanted to room with her. Gran was in her room alone for a couple of weeks, which seemed to suit her much better; especially since those rooms are really too small to have two people in, but it's a small nursing home and they don't have a large amount of rooms. Recently, over the last few weeks she has had another woman placed in her room with her, and she's causing a lot of problems - she is very loud, obnoxious and wants to always be the center of attention and just will not let anyone visit with my grandmother. She gets mad if the divider/curtain is pulled, because she wants to be in the middle of anything in the room, and if it'd pulled she goes over to my grandmother's side, sits and has herself a little show about herself, or gets in the discussion and changes it, making it impossible to talk to gran.

Since she's been ill lately, we don't take her out of her room so much. However, administrator of the nursing home said they would not move the woman to another room, that if she's disturbing gran, that gran would have to move somewhere else, because it'd be her with the problem, not the other lady. The woman shouts at her all night about things, and gran can not get any sleep, which makes her mind even worse, as she lacks proper rest, or any at all.

She now insists that gran does not have her TV on, even if the volume is off (we've finally gotten gran to watch the Food channel, and seems to suit her on bad days, or when ill) The TV does not even face that woman, and she can only see it when she walks out of the room - so it's not disturbing her, she's just being nasty about it. This woman doesn't have Dementia, or even bad health, she moved in the home because who she was living with moved away, and she didn't feel like living alone. She now is fuming, saying if we insist on moving the curtain (which is what the staff said to do, since she won't let us talk to gran--we've not been nasty about it at all, always polite and such, and even used to talk to her, but she won't let anything go), or if anyone does--even nurses, that she now has decided she doesn't want gran to have any visitors, TV, etc. She's being hateful, really. Last time my mother went there (I've not been the last time, as I'm home resting waiting on diagnosis/results from a Cardiologist) she had screamed at the top of her lungs at gran caling her names and telling her to leave her room, that she has every right to boss gran around, and say what happens in the room, even though gran's been in that room near enough 2 years. Gran hasn't even been hateful or mean about it, nor complain. It's the staff that noticed she never sleeps over it, but they seem to refuse to fix the situation, saying it's gran's problem, not the other lady, as it's gran that is being bothered - it hardly seems fair to me. Gran is very nervous and upset right now, over this environment.

We are thinking of moving her to another nursing home, and in the same town we live in, so we'd see her near enough daily. The question is this: Do you think that it'd do more harm than good to move her to a completely different nursing home, one that she doesn't know, when she is well into moderate stage?

I don't want her to get more confused and upset, but I don't want this chaos and verbal abuse to continue, either. My grandmother doesn't understand what's going on, and that woman scares her.

 

[BeckyJan]

Hello:
This sounds very unpleasant and I do not understand the care home staff not having some concern for your Gran.

My initial reaction is to bring an appropriate Social Worker into any discussion but yes, look around for another Care Home. I doubt you can influence the Care Home decision butiIt seems to me that the other person needs a special dementia unit where she can be in a room of her own and she is not a suitable person to share.

A move may be dificult but hopefully after a few weeks your Gran would settle especially if you can find a room for herself. Obviously costing comes into this so much depends on whether your Gran is self funding or by the local authority. If moving to a different LA one has to find out whether the present LA will carry the cost. This is something that should be discussed with a Social Worker.

It may be helpful for you to discuss with a Support Worker at your local Alzheimer's Society or to ring the National Helpline 0845 300 0336.

Best wishes

 

[DeborahBlythe]

Hello Carolyn, I'm really sorry to read about the situation with your grandmother. It sounds dreadful, what is happening there. Very nasty.
Can I presume that your grandmother is in a care home in the USA as you are posting from the USA? Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

 

[Poetic_Lass]

Yes, we are in Kansas, USA. You are correct. She's in a small nursing home, in a small town - it's also a mixed nursing home, not a Dementia care facility.

 

[Chris Edgerton]

After all this time, my mother in residential EMI for ten years. Residential/nursing home still are around which have two people in. Some nursing homes may still have more than two in a room possibly.
Social workers placing people in double rooms, some mixed sex. Care Quality Commission turns a blind eye to these practices.
Mothers care home has made all rooms last year, single occupancy. But many rooms are too small to for-fill the needs of the client. Yet CQC and social workers just turn a blind eye, sorry, work with the situation.
There could be a “Dignity in Care” issue with sharing a room. And alas, double rooms were cheaper than a single.
From England UK

 

[DeborahBlythe]

OK, well I have no experience at all of 'the system' in the US, but if the current home is taking such a cavalier attitude to your grandmother's welfare and they are content to allow this other resident to take over the room and blight your grandmother's days in such a domineering fashion, then I would want my relative out of that home. It's totally unacceptable.

Do you know if the other home you are thinking of can cope with your grandmother's needs? Have you and your family taken a good look at it? (I'm worry about frying pans and fires here, quite apart from my feathers being deeply ruffled on your grandmother's behalf.)

As long as the new home is able to meet your grandmother's needs, I would stick my neck out and say that a move, whilst initially unsettling, would be beneficial in the long run, especially if you are all able to visit more frequently. If that new care home is not suitable for any reason, then keep looking, but really, I do think that your grandmother's home should be told very clearly that the arrangement with the other lady is unsuitable.

Steam coming out of my ears over here!

 

[kazza73]

I can't believe the care home think it's your grandmother's problem because she's upset by this horrible woman! They have a duty to do their best to make sure your grandmother is comfortable and secure and feels safe while in their care. The fact that staff have expressed concern for your grandmother and yet noone is prepared to help her is shocking.
If that woman was a child she sounds as if she'd be the playground bully!
Is your grandmother self funding or is she LA funded? I only ask because I'm wondering if the other woman is self funding so seen as financially more beneficial to the home.
I would definitely get social worker involved and if you have no luck there I'd be inclined to go higher than the home administrator (either contacting the LA or head office of the home provider or even the CQC).

Only you, your family and gran's doctors can decide whether you gran is likely to find a move upsetting but at the moment she is scared and upset where she is so a complete move may not be a bad thing.

K xx

Ooops, just realised you're in the US. No experience of the system over there

 

[Poetic_Lass]

OK, well I have no experience at all of 'the system' in the US, but if the current home is taking such a cavalier attitude to your grandmother's welfare and they are content to allow this other resident to take over the room and blight your grandmother's days in such a domineering fashion, then I would want my relative out of that home. It's totally unacceptable.

Do you know if the other home you are thinking of can cope with your grandmother's needs? Have you and your family taken a good look at it? (I'm worry about frying pans and fires here, quite apart from my feathers being deeply ruffled on your grandmother's behalf.)

As long as the new home is able to meet your grandmother's needs, I would stick my neck out and say that a move, whilst initially unsettling, would be beneficial in the long run, especially if you are all able to visit more frequently. If that new care home is not suitable for any reason, then keep looking, but really, I do think that your grandmother's home should be told very clearly that the arrangement with the other lady is unsuitable.

Steam coming out of my ears over here!

We haven't checked new nursing homes out yet - it may be a month or so before we could move her, as well. See, before she moved into care she lived at home and had her retirement Social Security Income - as she worked her whole life as a nurse, even well after the age of being able to retire, and not until her health got bad. After my grandfather passed away in 2004, she got part of his benefits from the government, as he was in the war. Because of that, she was in a well catch - she made too much to keep part of her medical care, but really not enough to pay for all of her medications (she was on about 20 at one point - thyroid problems, Auto Immune Diseases, Osteoporosis, and list goes on...) So she was very tight on money, but she got by, and had a little in savings. I know this is confusing - it even confuses me, but she to my understanding, had state and federal medical, that covered different things, and the one that covers nursing homes was dropped at the time. So, we got her in the home that she's currently in, but it took all of her savings, and her monthly income - there is yet more left to pay, so the state pays it, but are still technically processing her case. This is because they made us sell her house, use all of her savings and use all monthly money, with the allowance of end balance being $50. Because of this, she can only get standard care; in other words, she can't have a private room. They charge far more for it. But that is pretty much how things work, as well as the circumstances of her personal situation. I do believe we will start looking at homes very soon, though. Even if we have to wait a few weeks to move, we can at least be prepared and ready when it's completed.

I can't believe the care home think it's your grandmother's problem because she's upset by this horrible woman! They have a duty to do their best to make sure your grandmother is comfortable and secure and feels safe while in their care. The fact that staff have expressed concern for your grandmother and yet noone is prepared to help her is shocking.
If that woman was a child she sounds as if she'd be the playground bully!
Is your grandmother self funding or is she LA funded? I only ask because I'm wondering if the other woman is self funding so seen as financially more beneficial to the home.
I would definitely get social worker involved and if you have no luck there I'd be inclined to go higher than the home administrator (either contacting the LA or head office of the home provider or even the CQC).

Only you, your family and gran's doctors can decide whether you gran is likely to find a move upsetting but at the moment she is scared and upset where she is so a complete move may not be a bad thing.

K xx

Ooops, just realised you're in the US. No experience of the system over there

I agree, Kazza - that lady is very much a bully. And my poor gran is caught in the middle of her bullying. Thank you for your concern. It is quite appalling behavior, and the staff's choices, too. As to asking of funding situation, I explained some above, as to Deborah's question.

xx

 

[tessadragon]

That's horrible, I'd be furious if a woman did that to my gran, and furious if my gran did that to another person and even angrier if a home allowed it to ocntinue happening!
Another home sounds for the best as that kind of cavalier attitude speaks volumes for the care of their residents.

Though otherwise in the meantime, press the care home about the issue, maybe mention it to other people visiting their loved ones. Maybe with enough people raising a fuss about it, they could change their attitude?

 

[Poetic_Lass]

Yes, I think we will keep pushing the issue, and reminding them that the situation keeps worsening. In a way, I will be so glad to see her out of there, though.

I have had my issues with how they run things before. That nursing home is semi-attached to a hospital there - it has a long hall type of thing that connects the two. Well, there have been bad bouts in that nursing home, where a couple residents will get quite sick, but instead of taking them to hospital for care, and to keep from others getting it, they leave them there until they get very sick, and a large percentage of the rest of the residents get ill, too. Usually big spreads of chest infections, and or Pneumonia, which gran keeps getting because they don't tend to things the way I believe they should. One resident passed away a couple of weeks ago from Pneumonia in the nursing home - I don't know all circumstances, but I believe she should've been put in hospital long before she passed away---all they did was give her some oral antibiotics and leave her there. That has been a worry to me.

My mother is actually Power of Attorney over her money, nursing home, etc. So, I couldn't make the decision alone, and my mother said people in homes are old and get sick, and didn't think as much of the matter as I did. However, she does see the room mate matter as I do, and agrees it needs sorted, even if by moving.

The things that have made it hard to come to the decision are the following: My grandmother has had the same doctor since I was a baby (25 years). He used to work at the doctors office in the small town she lived in 50+ years, and worked in another small town, which is the town her current nursing home is in, and that's why she went there, because she wanted to be in a town he worked in - she'd need a new doctor if we moved her, as that nursing home in the current town is the only one (the towns population is maybe 600). Also, she is very attached to one of the Nurse Aids there, and doesn't do as well on her days off. Those are the main reasons that we've tried to make it work, along with the fact that she's used to it there. It's made it hard to come to a decision, but I am fair sure that we will be moving her, as the cons outweigh it all now.

 

[DeborahBlythe]

Hello again, Carolyn, I'm sorry that you have got all those concerns about the home.

You may be right in what you surmise, but there is another way of looking at things, re the other residents with pneumonia, and indeed the poor lady who died of it.

By and large, in the UK we are advised to keep people OUT of hospitals for any number of reasons. When I was younger I used to think of the hospital as the big white ship that would save everyone with its wonderful technologies and caring staff.

Unfortunately these days we are told that there is a big risk of picking up other bugs in hospitals (especially MRSA) and care for people with dementia is not, generally, of a particularly sparkling quality.

With my mum, we were content for her to be treated on ABs in the home and definitely did not want her to be ferried off to hospital unless there was something really seriously wrong. It may be that the relatives of that lady you were concerned about also thought it would be better for her to be cared for in the care home. One just doesn't know without speaking to the next of kin.

Although the situation of other residents sounds worrying to you, and you may well be right on that score, I'd try and focus on your grandmother's care and supporting your mum, as I know you do. You have got enough on your plate there, I reckon. I hope this doesn't sound unhelpful. I just think that the priority right now is to ensure your grandmother is shielded from bullying and is comfortable in her living arrangements. I wish you every success in trying to sort things out for her. I know you are a very caring daughter and granddaughter and will do your best. No one can do more. Kind regards.

 

[Poetic_Lass]

Thank you, Deborah and all of you. x

Update: The administration has been spoken to thoroughly on the matter - we made it clear that it was unacceptable and that if they didn't sort it out, that we would have no problem with taking my grandmother out and placing her in another nursing home. It was also mentioned that we didn't think the state would agree with this, and in our eyes was unacceptable neglect. After this, they said they would 'consider' moving the room mate somewhere else, as they apparently weren't aware that the lady had upgraded from shouting to screaming and forbidding, that usually they don't come across these 'situations' so had made no specific rules/procedures for it - which either way, I think it's unacceptable. It's common sense that it shouldn't be let to happen, and if it does, it's common sense to remove the person - you shouldn't need a rule book to handle that. Ah well. Hopefully it'll be sorted, like they said. I assume they realized we were dead serious; they'd lose money and that they didn't want the state getting in the middle. I'll let you all know if anything actually happens.

 

[tessadragon]

My fingers are crossed that they take swift, positive and decisive action to protect your grandmother

 

[Poetic_Lass]

An Update

An Update:

So, we spoke with the nursing home more thoroughly; we told them that either they sorted that chaotic mess, or we were taking her out to another home and reporting them for letting abuse go on, even after being told of it. They changed their tune and moved the other lady somewhere else (in a room by herself, since she's so bossy and even mean at times to others).

However, we are still looking into a new nursing home to move her to. In my opinion, they are neglecting my poor gran; when people get ill there, they often times just leave them there and they get very ill - a couple even died. My grandmother has been ill, and finally non-responsive. We hadn't been to the home in about 5 days (gas is far too expensive now ), and on arrival she was totally disoriented and non-responsive; she wouldn't look at you, nod or anything if anyone tried to speak to her. She was having trouble breathing, very pale and slumped over in a chair. A nurse was called to ask about it, and check her vitals - they said she'd been that way a few days but they didn't think it was a "big deal", so they didn't call us, make a doctors appointment or take her to the hospital. It's always like this; she gets ill, they ignore it and then we come in and find her very ill and take her to the hospital ourselves. After the doctor at the hospital looked her over and ran tests they said these were the problems: Severe Dehydration, Streptococcus Pneumoniae Blood Infection, Pneumonia, Malnurished, UTI and a couple other things. They said she'd probably had most of that for at least a couple of months.

Also, they knew that she had a UTI at the nursing home (though they couldn't be bothered testing to see what kind), and they said they'd been giving her antibiotics for it, but when my mother took her to the hospital she took gran's chart and looked in it to see what antibiotic (she legally can read the chart since she has Power Of Attorney), and they hadn't even been giving her antibiotics. They lied to us - apparently to get us off their backs.

This is perhaps the 5th or so time that if we hadn't found her in a state, she'd likely have died because that staff won't do a thing for her when ill. I'm fuming a bit. Just because she is elderly and has Dementia doesn't mean that she doesn't have a right to live, get decent treatment and general respect.